OE Webex 11Mar08

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03/11/2008    09:27:52 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	Hi there!
03/11/2008    09:28:06 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	knock wood
03/11/2008    09:28:50 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	David is connecting
03/11/2008    09:28:51 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	oh,
03/11/2008    09:28:53 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	he's in
03/11/2008    09:28:58 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Wow, people are very prompt this morning!  My clock says 9:28.
03/11/2008    09:29:01 AM    from Alexander Diehl:	Jen, change to All Particpants.
03/11/2008    09:29:13 AM    from Jen Deegan:	Hi Nomi, is recording disabled?
03/11/2008    09:29:15 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	Jen, David does not want to be recorded.
03/11/2008    09:29:19 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	:)
03/11/2008    09:29:19 AM    from Jen Deegan:	oh
03/11/2008    09:29:23 AM    from Jen Deegan:	ok :-)
03/11/2008    09:29:25 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	You can prod him though.
03/11/2008    09:29:34 AM    from Jen Deegan:	it's okay I think everyone is coming anyway
03/11/2008    09:29:37 AM    from Nomi Harris:	I neither enabled nor disabled recording.
03/11/2008    09:29:42 AM    from Jen Deegan:	good-oh
03/11/2008    09:29:56 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	Nomi, can you pass control to David already so we can get set up?
03/11/2008    09:30:06 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Yes
03/11/2008    09:30:20 AM    from Jen Deegan:	are we starting with 1.101 or 2?
03/11/2008    09:30:31 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	1.101 is all we're doing for now
03/11/2008    09:30:37 AM    from Jen Deegan:	righto
03/11/2008    09:30:48 AM    from Nomi Harris:	DavidH is the host now.
03/11/2008    09:31:12 AM    from Jen Deegan:	which file are you going to load?
03/11/2008    09:32:39 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	Nomi, I dont' think everyone can see your comments.
03/11/2008    09:33:00 AM    from Harold:	I see no comments
03/11/2008    09:33:51 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Sometimes I'm seeing the OE window, but other times I just see a black screen with an arrow cursor moving around.
03/11/2008    09:34:05 AM    from midori:	same here, plus sometimes just a field of green
03/11/2008    09:34:15 AM    from midori:	I see O-E now ...
03/11/2008    09:34:17 AM    from Harold:	lets stop until everyone can see the same thing
03/11/2008    09:34:18 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	Sorry, we're figuring out how to best display ;stuff.
03/11/2008    09:34:23 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	I'm on Skype with David
03/11/2008    09:34:28 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	and will type out what he's doing.
03/11/2008    09:34:30 AM    from David OS:	I'm just getting the green field too
03/11/2008    09:34:31 AM    from midori:	(and wow, that def needs work)
03/11/2008    09:34:31 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Ok.
03/11/2008    09:34:33 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	When shall we start?
03/11/2008    09:34:40 AM    from Nomi Harris:	(Yes, I was thinking that def was a bit weak!)
03/11/2008    09:34:55 AM    from Nomi Harris:	I think you can go ahead and start.
03/11/2008    09:35:12 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	For this example, we've loaded up the file go_regtest_withPosNeg_noPF_noXP.obo
03/11/2008    09:35:17 AM    from midori:	Nomi, you're on 'all attendees'
03/11/2008    09:35:25 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Argh
03/11/2008    09:35:28 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Why is that the default?
03/11/2008    09:35:34 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	which is in the go/scratch/regulates_test_files (or something like that)
03/11/2008    09:35:34 AM    from midori:	?????
03/11/2008    09:35:38 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Anyway, David and Tanya, please go ahead and start whenever you're ready.
03/11/2008    09:35:45 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	OK, ready to start.
03/11/2008    09:35:59 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	You have to go into the Global Filter Plugins and
03/11/2008    09:36:06 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	make sure that all you are left with in the LInk Filters
03/11/2008    09:36:13 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	is what David has showing now
03/11/2008    09:36:26 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	IMPT:
03/11/2008    09:36:35 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	get rid of the one that had to do with 'transitive' links
03/11/2008    09:36:41 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	Save changes
03/11/2008    09:36:50 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	we are demonstrating adding a regulation term to cell deat
03/11/2008    09:36:52 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	death
03/11/2008    09:36:56 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	add new term as usual
03/11/2008    09:37:03 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	add term name as usual
03/11/2008    09:37:14 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	change relationship type to ''regulates'
03/11/2008    09:37:25 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	(please interrupt if we're going too fast)
03/11/2008    09:37:27 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	ok
03/11/2008    09:37:37 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	now, you need to find a 'regulation parent'
03/11/2008    09:37:43 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	for a biological process term,
03/11/2008    09:37:52 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	this will be something under regulation of biological process
03/11/2008    09:38:04 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	click on cell death and look at its graph
03/11/2008    09:38:06 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	like this
03/11/2008    09:38:16 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	it is_a death
03/11/2008    09:38:17 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	and it
03/11/2008    09:38:23 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	is_a cellular developmental process
03/11/2008    09:38:26 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	we don't have either of those
03/11/2008    09:38:32 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	regulation terms
03/11/2008    09:38:34 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	so
03/11/2008    09:38:39 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	it's up to the curator
03/11/2008    09:38:45 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	whether they would like to create
03/11/2008    09:38:47 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	regulation of deat
03/11/2008    09:38:49 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	death
03/11/2008    09:38:57 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	or regulation of cellular developmental process
03/11/2008    09:39:01 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	if you do not
03/11/2008    09:39:15 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	then this new regulation term goes to the best existing child
03/11/2008    09:39:19 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	which in this example is
03/11/2008    09:39:25 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	regulation of developmental process
03/11/2008    09:39:32 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	note that it ALSO
03/11/2008    09:39:35 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	has to go to
03/11/2008    09:39:40 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	regulation of cellular process
03/11/2008    09:39:49 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	since we did not create the compound term
03/11/2008    09:39:55 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	regulation of cellular developmental process
03/11/2008    09:40:04 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	any questions so far?
03/11/2008    09:40:09 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	or shall we proceed?
03/11/2008    09:40:17 AM    from Jen Deegan:	fine by me
03/11/2008    09:40:37 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	moving on then
03/11/2008    09:40:57 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	now we're going to create a negative regulation of cell death term
03/11/2008    09:41:03 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	and deal with this term's parentage
03/11/2008    09:41:07 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	same deal
03/11/2008    09:41:09 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	new term
03/11/2008    09:41:11 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	new term name
03/11/2008    09:41:17 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	change relationship type
03/11/2008    09:41:21 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	all the old familiar stuff
03/11/2008    09:41:33 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	now,
03/11/2008    09:41:38 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	we don't have neg reg of death
03/11/2008    09:41:48 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	sorry, David's mouse is being spastic
03/11/2008    09:41:56 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	we do have neg reg of cellular process
03/11/2008    09:42:07 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	so now this has a neg reg parent
03/11/2008    09:42:13 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	we also should add it to
03/11/2008    09:42:17 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	neg reg of dev process
03/11/2008    09:42:33 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	just like the parent term was added to reg of both cell and dev process
03/11/2008    09:42:39 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	now
03/11/2008    09:42:45 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	we go back to cell death
03/11/2008    09:43:09 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	and make a negative regulates relationship between the neg reg of cell death and the term cell death itself
03/11/2008    09:43:25 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	The final result, viewed in the Graphviz view is here.
03/11/2008    09:43:33 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	That's all folks.
03/11/2008    09:43:43 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	Don't worry if you don't get all the parents right
03/11/2008    09:43:52 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	Chris will find them with his brilliant scripts
03/11/2008    09:43:57 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	and we will fix them
03/11/2008    09:44:07 AM    from midori:	wooooo
03/11/2008    09:44:08 AM    from Jen Deegan:	what about children of negative regulation of cell death?
03/11/2008    09:44:12 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	as we'll be reviewing the QC reports on a regular basis
03/11/2008    09:44:23 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	Jen, ok.
03/11/2008    09:44:30 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	Good question (says David)
03/11/2008    09:44:36 AM    from Jen Deegan:	Thank you :-)
03/11/2008    09:44:43 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	Here's new child.
03/11/2008    09:45:24 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	Let's say this ig going to be neg reg of cell death involved in forebrain development
03/11/2008    09:45:37 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	Then it becomes quite easy.
03/11/2008    09:45:57 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	Just make an is_a child of the neg reg term
03/11/2008    09:46:01 AM    from jane lomax:	ack, the sooner we can get the obol functionality integrated into OE the better - there will be a lot of relations to add by hand now
03/11/2008    09:46:08 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	Then make it a part_of forebrain development
03/11/2008    09:46:29 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	You bet!( says David)
03/11/2008    09:46:44 AM    from Jen Deegan:	can we also do a child process that doesn't have the words 'negative regulation'  in it?
03/11/2008    09:46:47 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	And I agree
03/11/2008    09:47:12 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	(for David) probably yes, as long as you make the correct is_a parentage
03/11/2008    09:47:24 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	but it will show up on our QC report as a problem
03/11/2008    09:47:29 AM    from Jen Deegan:	eh?
03/11/2008    09:47:31 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	if this really reflects biology that's ok
03/11/2008    09:47:33 AM    from Harold:	shouldn't the new term have a negatively_regulates relation to forebrain dev?
03/11/2008    09:48:03 AM    from midori:	not necessarily -- it's negatively regulating cell death.
03/11/2008    09:48:13 AM    from Jen Deegan:	or an involved_in relationship :-)
03/11/2008    09:48:23 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	if it's a normal process that occurs during forebrain development then
03/11/2008    09:48:30 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	it doesn't regulate forebrain development
03/11/2008    09:48:34 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	it is a part_of it
03/11/2008    09:49:01 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	We're not going to demo this in OE2 for now because regulates is going live before OE2 does.
03/11/2008    09:49:09 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	When OE2 does go live, we'll do another demo.
03/11/2008    09:49:22 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	I apologize if there were other people who wanted to see
03/11/2008    09:49:24 AM    from Jen Deegan:	can we do a process like 'sprocket coagulation' which happens to be a process that negatively regulates cell death?
03/11/2008    09:49:28 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	crossproducts in action
03/11/2008    09:49:40 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	but this is the current training that we'd like to get across.
03/11/2008    09:49:51 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	Yes
03/11/2008    09:50:17 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	when it pops up on our QC report, we'll say it's ok and it won't show up again
03/11/2008    09:50:20 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	we hope
03/11/2008    09:50:20 AM    from midori:	I don't think I want my sprockets coagulating on me ...
03/11/2008    09:50:22 AM    from Harold:	Will the reasoner be able to spot errors in parentage?
03/11/2008    09:50:40 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	YES!
03/11/2008    09:50:45 AM    from Jen Deegan:	all of them?
03/11/2008    09:50:48 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	These are the bazillion QC reports that we're looking at.
03/11/2008    09:50:53 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	WE don't know
03/11/2008    09:50:56 AM    from Jen Deegan:	:-)
03/11/2008    09:50:59 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	but it sure spots alot
03/11/2008    09:51:10 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	enough to keep us busy till we retire
03/11/2008    09:51:13 AM    from Jen Deegan:	will you demo sprocket coagulation?
03/11/2008    09:51:29 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	I will ask David nicely.
03/11/2008    09:51:34 AM    from Jen Deegan:	thank you :-)
03/11/2008    09:51:58 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	whoops
03/11/2008    09:52:05 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	you are seeing an OBoEDit expert at work!
03/11/2008    09:52:25 AM    from Jen Deegan:	I'm very impressed!
03/11/2008    09:52:53 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	You've taught him all he knows.
03/11/2008    09:53:11 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	Oh dear.
03/11/2008    09:53:22 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	Find that undo button!
03/11/2008    09:53:36 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	He's good at undoing.
03/11/2008    09:53:50 AM    from Jen Deegan:	would it be possibl to make the ontology editor panel wider?
03/11/2008    09:54:23 AM    from DavidH:	tanya just got dumped from the meeting
03/11/2008    09:54:25 AM    from Harold:	green screen of death
03/11/2008    09:54:32 AM    from Jen Deegan:	all gone
03/11/2008    09:54:37 AM    from Jen Deegan:	back
03/11/2008    09:54:38 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	I'm back
03/11/2008    09:54:48 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	First time I got kicked out of a webex meeting.
03/11/2008    09:54:56 AM    from midori:	welcome to the club
03/11/2008    09:55:08 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	never happened on my Windows machine before
03/11/2008    09:55:19 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	ooooh
03/11/2008    09:55:21 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	I'm cloned
03/11/2008    09:55:31 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	Where's that spell check?
03/11/2008    09:55:38 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	Jen, is sprocket coagulation part of anything?
03/11/2008    09:55:45 AM    from Jen Deegan:	um
03/11/2008    09:55:51 AM    from Jen Deegan:	no I don't think so
03/11/2008    09:56:02 AM    from Jen Deegan:	it's just a type of negative regulation of cell death
03/11/2008    09:56:02 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	well, then, that's all
03/11/2008    09:56:04 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	you need
03/11/2008    09:56:13 AM    from Jen Deegan:	does it get a negatively regulates relationship?
03/11/2008    09:56:13 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	really
03/11/2008    09:56:19 AM    from Jen Deegan:	to cell death?
03/11/2008    09:56:32 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	it does through the is_a path
03/11/2008    09:56:34 AM    from midori:	wouldn't that be redundant?
03/11/2008    09:56:45 AM    from Jen Deegan:	oh so it inherits that
03/11/2008    09:56:52 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	correct
03/11/2008    09:56:54 AM    from Jen Deegan:	yes I see
03/11/2008    09:56:57 AM    from Jen Deegan:	gotcha
03/11/2008    09:57:10 AM    from Nomi Harris:	What's the difference between the top left panel and the bottom left panel?
03/11/2008    09:57:25 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	no difference
03/11/2008    09:57:30 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	just different parts of the ontology
03/11/2008    09:57:35 AM    from Jen Deegan:	any chance of a screenshot of that or something?
03/11/2008    09:57:37 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	makes it easier to edit
03/11/2008    09:57:51 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	it will be in the documentation
03/11/2008    09:58:04 AM    from Harold:	in OE2 you can just add another edit panel
03/11/2008    09:58:05 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	(which is almost ready for prime time)
03/11/2008    09:58:10 AM    from Jen Deegan:	I got the screenshot myself
03/11/2008    09:58:13 AM    from Harold:	to get the same thing
03/11/2008    09:58:16 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	that's right
03/11/2008    09:58:21 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	take matters into your own hands
03/11/2008    09:58:30 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	you can get one later when David commits this to the live go
03/11/2008    09:58:33 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	:)
03/11/2008    09:58:40 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	anything else?
03/11/2008    09:58:41 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	if not,
03/11/2008    09:58:46 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	I have to go to another meeting
03/11/2008    09:58:53 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Thank you, Tanya and David, for that demo.
03/11/2008    09:58:53 AM    from Jen Deegan:	that was brilliant, thanks.
03/11/2008    09:59:00 AM    from midori:	so we get regulates, + reg and - reg on the 25th?
03/11/2008    09:59:06 AM    from Nomi Harris:	And I apologize to everyone for the confusion about the meeting time and date!
03/11/2008    09:59:08 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	Yes ma'am.
03/11/2008    09:59:20 AM    from midori:	Then I'm cool. But not as cool as you.
03/11/2008    09:59:32 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	David is going to try to give control back to Nomi.
03/11/2008    09:59:50 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	He doesn't know how to make you the host again.
03/11/2008    09:59:52 AM    from Jen Deegan:	Thanks David! That was a magnificent feat of editing.
03/11/2008    09:59:56 AM    from Nomi Harris:	It still says "DavidH (host") but I now have a green button.
03/11/2008    10:00:08 AM    from midori:	that means Nomi is presenter
03/11/2008    10:00:09 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	yes, this means that you can present
03/11/2008    10:00:12 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	snap!
03/11/2008    10:00:13 AM    from Nomi Harris:	It doesn't matter, as long as we finish the meeting before David leaves.
03/11/2008    10:00:22 AM    from midori:	glad we agree!
03/11/2008    10:00:25 AM    from Nomi Harris:	If the host leaves, the meeting ends.
03/11/2008    10:00:28 AM    from Jen Deegan:	I just saved the chat, just in case
03/11/2008    10:00:44 AM    from midori:	nomi, do you have a menu option for 'reclaim host role', under 'participant'?
03/11/2008    10:00:53 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Yes, I just tried that.  It asked for the host key.
03/11/2008    10:00:53 AM    from Karen:	thanks Tanya, I have to leave now too
03/11/2008    10:00:54 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	Got to go.
03/11/2008    10:00:56 AM    from Tanya Berardini:	Bye
03/11/2008    10:01:09 AM    from midori:	bye, and thanks!
03/11/2008    10:01:16 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Bye, Tanya and Karen.
03/11/2008    10:01:27 AM    from Jen Deegan:	Nomi, it's showing you as host for me
03/11/2008    10:01:36 AM    from midori:	maybe try the webex account password? (disclaimer: I'm guessing!)
03/11/2008    10:01:43 AM    from Harold:	DavidH is listed as host here
03/11/2008    10:01:51 AM    from DavidH:	I think you get the host key in you host e-mail
03/11/2008    10:01:51 AM    from midori:	odd - I have Nomi as presenter but DavidH as host.
03/11/2008    10:01:57 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Me too
03/11/2008    10:02:04 AM    from Jen Deegan:	oh yes
03/11/2008    10:02:13 AM    from Jen Deegan:	misunderstood the beachball
03/11/2008    10:02:22 AM    from DavidH:	I think I remember reading something about claiming back host privledges when I've hosted
03/11/2008    10:02:46 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Let's not worry about it--let's just finish any other topics and then we can end the meeting.
03/11/2008    10:02:54 AM    from Jen Deegan:	David could just leave it running until we are done
03/11/2008    10:03:11 AM    from Harold:	we need to get the icons decided
03/11/2008    10:03:16 AM    �
03/11/2008    10:03:22 AM    from Nomi Harris:	I didn't do a release between meetings because I am still changing class names for the components (e.g. DAG View -> Tree Viewer).
03/11/2008    10:03:23 AM    from Jen Deegan:	very urgent!
03/11/2008    10:03:27 AM    from DavidH:	ok, but I'm going to do other stuff though
03/11/2008    10:03:30 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Yes, we definitely need to settle on icons.
03/11/2008    10:03:38 AM    from Nomi Harris:	That's fine, David.  There won't be a quiz later.
03/11/2008    10:03:38 AM    from Jen Deegan:	did everybody see the wiki?
03/11/2008    10:03:46 AM    from Harold:	and how to get them into OE 1.1
03/11/2008    10:04:13 AM    from David OS:	wiki?
03/11/2008    10:04:19 AM    from Jen Deegan:	http://wiki.geneontology.org/index.php/Regulates_icons_in_OBO-Edit
03/11/2008    10:04:26 AM    from Jen Deegan:	all possible options are there
03/11/2008    10:04:33 AM    from Nomi Harris:	I am neutral.
03/11/2008    10:04:39 AM    from midori:	me too
03/11/2008    10:04:48 AM    from Jen Deegan:	Amelia is to figure something out and send it back poste haste so this is the time to say what you think
03/11/2008    10:05:12 AM    from Jen Deegan:	I like the black arrow ones amelia made if they were a bit bigger
03/11/2008    10:05:14 AM    from Nomi Harris:	I think the arrows are nice in a big size but suffer somewhat when they are shrunk.
03/11/2008    10:05:23 AM    from Jen Deegan:	I think if the svgs had worked they might have been bigger
03/11/2008    10:05:33 AM    from Harold:	I just had david tranfer host to Nomi
03/11/2008    10:05:37 AM    from Jen Deegan:	I also like the blue letter ones for legibility
03/11/2008    10:05:46 AM    �
03/11/2008    10:06:13 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Jen, I'm not sure the arrow svgs would be bigger.  The way they are now, they are as tall as the is_a icon.
03/11/2008    10:06:46 AM    from Jen Deegan:	do you think so?
03/11/2008    10:06:50 AM    from Nomi Harris:	The blue ones are good.  I don't love the yellowish-background black ones.
03/11/2008    10:06:50 AM    from Jen Deegan:	they seemed smaller to me
03/11/2008    10:06:59 AM    from Jen Deegan:	I agree
03/11/2008    10:07:07 AM    from Jen Deegan:	the yellowish background is a bit funny
03/11/2008    10:07:21 AM    from Jen Deegan:	I think the big letters stand out well
03/11/2008    10:07:25 AM    from gwg:	what I would like to do is to create an icon set where the letter are all of the same size
03/11/2008    10:07:26 AM    from Nomi Harris:	The biggest dimension of each arrow looks to me to match the is_a icon.
03/11/2008    10:07:38 AM    from Nomi Harris:	However, since the arrows are not round, their smaller dimension is not as big as the is_a icon.
03/11/2008    10:07:47 AM    from gwg:	currently the size of the letter is somewhat dependent on the shape it's in
03/11/2008    10:07:53 AM    from Jen Deegan:	yes it's true
03/11/2008    10:08:01 AM    from Jen Deegan:	I found that difficult to handle too
03/11/2008    10:08:11 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Yes, it would look nicer if the R were the same size in all three icons.
03/11/2008    10:08:13 AM    from Jen Deegan:	even with square icons they went oblong in oboedit
03/11/2008    10:08:40 AM    from Jen Deegan:	Nomi, are you looking at the AmiGO screenshot or the oboedit one?
03/11/2008    10:08:42 AM    from gwg:	I can spend a bit more time on it if people would like - those icons were just a first draft really
03/11/2008    10:08:47 AM    from Nomi Harris:	oboedit
03/11/2008    10:08:50 AM    from Jen Deegan:	oh good
03/11/2008    10:09:00 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Well, both, actually.
03/11/2008    10:09:03 AM    from Jen Deegan:	We seem to be getting a bit pressed for time
03/11/2008    10:09:12 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Anyway, I really don't mind which icons are picked.  Just let me know and I'll add them to OE2.
03/11/2008    10:09:14 AM    from Jen Deegan:	would you be able to work on them quite soon?
03/11/2008    10:09:26 AM    from Jen Deegan:	Chris asked for them by the end of last week
03/11/2008    10:09:38 AM    from gwg:	I can take a shot at them tomorrow - I just had some AmiGO stuff I needed to do, but I've done that now
03/11/2008    10:09:42 AM    from Jen Deegan:	great
03/11/2008    10:09:47 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Who is gwg?
03/11/2008    10:09:50 AM    from Jen Deegan:	Amelia
03/11/2008    10:09:59 AM    from gwg:	lol!
03/11/2008    10:09:59 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Oh.  I guess that should have been obvious (???)
03/11/2008    10:10:09 AM    from Jen Deegan:	not necessarily :-)
03/11/2008    10:10:17 AM    from Harold:	the Girl With the Glasses
03/11/2008    10:10:29 AM    from Nomi Harris:	It should be the Girl with the Guitar.
03/11/2008    10:10:35 AM    from Harold:	ah,I like that one
03/11/2008    10:10:36 AM    from Jen Deegan:	nice!
03/11/2008    10:10:40 AM    from Harold:	better
03/11/2008    10:10:41 AM    from gwg:	Guitar*S*!
03/11/2008    10:10:47 AM    from Jen Deegan:	:-)
03/11/2008    10:10:59 AM    from Nomi Harris:	You're coming back to Berkeley after the GO meeting, right, gwg?
03/11/2008    10:11:18 AM    from gwg:	as long as visa things get sorted, yes :D
03/11/2008    10:11:31 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Fingers crossed!
03/11/2008    10:11:38 AM    from Jen Deegan:	so is the plan that Amelia works on getting the sizes better and gets back to us?
03/11/2008    10:11:43 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Yes
03/11/2008    10:12:16 AM    from Jen Deegan:	We should just concentrate on the icons people liek most
03/11/2008    10:12:20 AM    from gwg:	ok, I'll get something done and send it around tomorrow
03/11/2008    10:12:23 AM    from Jen Deegan:	is that the arrow ones and the blue letter ones?
03/11/2008    10:12:26 AM    from Harold:	Just occurred to me that the look of the icons may be tied into whatever screen res you have
03/11/2008    10:12:33 AM    from gwg:	yes, let me know which are the best
03/11/2008    10:12:42 AM    from Jen Deegan:	anyone keen on the others?
03/11/2008    10:12:49 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Karen, I'm going to look into that delete problem some more.  If you have any more info about what seems to trigger it, please let me know.
03/11/2008    10:13:00 AM    from Harold:	I've always like the arrow
03/11/2008    10:13:05 AM    from Nomi Harris:	I thought the triangles were ok.
03/11/2008    10:13:09 AM    from Erika:	I like the arrows too
03/11/2008    10:13:18 AM    from gwg:	also, I was thinking it might be better to have the icons of the same colour because otherwise people tend to discriminate based on colour rather than clarity of shape
03/11/2008    10:13:35 AM    from gwg:	I was going to do black 'n' white icons and then we can worry about a colour afterwards
03/11/2008    10:13:43 AM    from Jen Deegan:	good idea
03/11/2008    10:13:45 AM    from Harold:	good
03/11/2008    10:13:47 AM    from Nomi Harris:	yes
03/11/2008    10:13:49 AM    from Jen Deegan:	to be honest I like the arrows in black
03/11/2008    10:13:56 AM    from Harold:	I do also
03/11/2008    10:14:03 AM    from Jen Deegan:	but as you say, good to leave colour out at this stage
03/11/2008    10:14:29 AM    from Harold:	but that might be because of how they were surrounded by the terms with the other relationships
03/11/2008    10:14:43 AM    from Jen Deegan:	it might be good to have the icons actually bigger than the current icons if it means they look the same size, if you see what I mean,
03/11/2008    10:15:13 AM    from Nomi Harris:	I think OE scales them somehow, though I haven't figured out exactly how it decides on the size.
03/11/2008    10:15:32 AM    from Jen Deegan:	I thik th
03/11/2008    10:15:34 AM    from gwg:	it could be that obo-edit could be configured to have icons in certain colours, esp. given that the colours of svgs can be specified as html colour codes
03/11/2008    10:15:39 AM    from Jen Deegan:	I think that's the problem
03/11/2008    10:15:49 AM    from Harold:	I think its the size of the letter inside of the  arrow that is smaller than the  I or P in the other two
03/11/2008    10:16:05 AM    from Jen Deegan:	yes
03/11/2008    10:16:05 AM    from Harold:	So to get those to  the same  size would mean making thearrow larger
03/11/2008    10:16:12 AM    from Jen Deegan:	but the actual arrow seems smaller to me too
03/11/2008    10:16:26 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Optical illusion
03/11/2008    10:16:32 AM    from Jen Deegan:	yes I know
03/11/2008    10:16:34 AM    from Nomi Harris:	I agree with Harold, it's just the letter r that's smaller.
03/11/2008    10:16:39 AM    from Harold:	it does to me also
03/11/2008    10:16:44 AM    from Jen Deegan:	but we need it to be actually bigger to make it appear the samme size
03/11/2008    10:16:55 AM    from Nomi Harris:	But OE may then just scale it down again to the size it likes.
03/11/2008    10:17:07 AM    from Nomi Harris:	I will see if I can figure out what's up with that.  Amelia, maybe you can make a few different sizes so I can experiment?
03/11/2008    10:17:10 AM    from Jen Deegan:	on my screen the arrow is *definately* smaller
03/11/2008    10:17:19 AM    from gwg:	yes, will do
03/11/2008    10:17:21 AM    from Harold:	is there any .. white space  at the  tip of the icon itself?
03/11/2008    10:17:21 AM    from Jen Deegan:	thanks
03/11/2008    10:18:07 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Ok, Jen, we believe you <pat pat>
03/11/2008    10:18:12 AM    from Jen Deegan:	Thank you :-)
03/11/2008    10:18:18 AM    from Jen Deegan:	<sigh>
03/11/2008    10:18:39 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Any other things to discuss?
03/11/2008    10:18:47 AM    from Jen Deegan:	nothing from me
03/11/2008    10:19:18 AM    from Nomi Harris:	I think I've fixed the dangling refs problem
03/11/2008    10:19:23 AM    from midori:	I've put in a couple more bug reports ... OE performance with the reasoner on is bad again ...
03/11/2008    10:19:32 AM    from Nomi Harris:	:-(
03/11/2008    10:19:42 AM    from Nomi Harris:	It got better, and then worse again?
03/11/2008    10:19:42 AM    from midori:	but we don't have to discuss that now, unelss anyone has a dramatic insight
03/11/2008    10:20:10 AM    from midori:	Nomi - yes, it did. It's not quite as bad as 1.1x but it's nowhere near as good as it was several betas ago.
03/11/2008    10:20:21 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Weird.  I don't know why that would have changed.
03/11/2008    10:20:33 AM    from Nomi Harris:	I don't see that bug report.
03/11/2008    10:20:35 AM    from midori:	to annoy me, perhaps?
03/11/2008    10:20:40 AM    from midori:	it's new today ...
03/11/2008    10:20:55 AM    from midori:	https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1911989&group_id=36855&atid=418257
03/11/2008    10:21:00 AM    from Jen Deegan:	maybe somebody pinched Midori's ram
03/11/2008    10:21:17 AM    from midori:	hmm, 'puter still thinks it's there ;)
03/11/2008    10:21:22 AM    from Jen Deegan:	:-)
03/11/2008    10:21:24 AM    from Nomi Harris:	weird, it wasn't showing up when I did browse.
03/11/2008    10:21:34 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Anyway, I'll see if I can figure out what's up.  I didn't change anything in the reasoner.
03/11/2008    10:21:46 AM    from midori:	frustrating, I know ...
03/11/2008    10:22:20 AM    from Nomi Harris:	See you all next week?
03/11/2008    10:22:20 AM    from David OS:	"I think I've fixed the dangling refs problem" - most excellent.
03/11/2008    10:22:28 AM    from Nomi Harris:	When does the UK switch to summer time?
03/11/2008    10:22:29 AM    from midori:	well, I oughta get going here ...
03/11/2008    10:22:35 AM    from Nomi Harris:	(and Europe)
03/11/2008    10:22:39 AM    from midori:	March 30th
03/11/2008    10:22:40 AM    from Jen Deegan:	Yes, have a good week.
03/11/2008    10:22:50 AM    from Nomi Harris:	So we'll meet again at 4:30GMT next week if that's ok with everyone.
03/11/2008    10:22:56 AM    from midori:	fine with me
03/11/2008    10:23:01 AM    from David OS:	works for me too
03/11/2008    10:23:03 AM    from Nomi Harris:	Good.
03/11/2008    10:23:09 AM    from Harold:	Midori: if you do multiple searches in a row, and it starts slowing down,  it might point to a problem outside of the reasoner.