OE Webex 11Oct07

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10/11/2007    17:28:42 PM    from Midori Harris to All Attendees:
hi Erika!
10/11/2007    17:28:51 PM    from erika to All Attendees:
	Hi 
Midori
10/11/2007    17:29:10 PM    from erika to All Attendees:
	How are 
you doing?
10/11/2007    17:29:32 PM    from Midori Harris to All Attendees:
Fine; how are you?
10/11/2007    17:29:37 PM    from erika to All Attendees:
	I am 
quite tired :-(
10/11/2007    17:29:52 PM    from erika to All Attendees:
	but 
happy because we have finished with the muscle meeting stuff
10/11/2007    17:29:59 PM    from Midori Harris to All Attendees:
that's great!!!
10/11/2007    17:30:08 PM    from Midori Harris to All Attendees:
(and a good reason to be tired)
10/11/2007    17:30:43 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Attendees:
hi
10/11/2007    17:30:43 PM    from erika to All Attendees:
	Ageda 
for today says that it is a very important meeting
10/11/2007    17:30:47 PM    from erika to All Attendees:
	Hi Jen
10/11/2007    17:31:01 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Attendees:
another really important one?
10/11/2007    17:31:07 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Attendees:
gosh
10/11/2007    17:31:56 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Attendees:
I love the new menu item called 'change inverse necessity to true'
10/11/2007    17:32:20 PM    from Midori Harris to All Attendees:
there's no accounting for taste ;)
10/11/2007    17:32:25 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Attendees:
Is that a psychological phenomenon?
10/11/2007    17:32:27 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Attendees:
:-)
10/11/2007    17:32:35 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Attendees:
what can it mean?
10/11/2007    17:33:19 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
Hi, all.
10/11/2007    17:33:22 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
hi
10/11/2007    17:33:31 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
how's it going?
10/11/2007    17:33:47 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Our little boy didn't wake up until 7:50 this morning. It felt 
like a vacation.
10/11/2007    17:33:52 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
wow!
10/11/2007    17:34:08 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
note to self: do not have children
10/11/2007    17:34:09 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
parenthood makes ya easy to please
10/11/2007    17:34:38 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	It's true - I'll do any old kind of heroin now. I don't need any 
fancy-schmancy turkish white these days.
10/11/2007    17:35:15 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
would that explain the menu option  'change inverse necessity to true'?
10/11/2007    17:35:27 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
It intrigues me
10/11/2007    17:35:47 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	No, that refers to an obscure OBO 1.0 feature that we have never 
really used. I'm going to ask Chris to deprecate it in OBO 1.3
10/11/2007    17:35:54 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
oh ok
10/11/2007    17:36:02 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I thought it was *the future*
10/11/2007    17:36:07 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
shame
10/11/2007    17:36:09 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I think we should deprecate all the necessity and cardinality 
features of OBO
10/11/2007    17:36:15 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
okey dokey
10/11/2007    17:36:25 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I wont ask what they are then
10/11/2007    17:36:30 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
that's out of my league anyway
10/11/2007    17:36:33 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	To answer your question about the graph viz viewer...
10/11/2007    17:36:58 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
suspense
10/11/2007    17:37:11 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I removed it because it wasn't working anyway - changes I made 
in the selection system for OBO-Edit 2.0 had rendered it useless, and 
starting it up would only do one thing: hose your config files.
10/11/2007    17:37:18 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I thought it safer to remove it entirely.
10/11/2007    17:37:25 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
drat.
10/11/2007    17:37:26 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
oh dear
10/11/2007    17:37:43 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
so we have to stick with 1.101 until we can use the graph editor?
10/11/2007    17:37:46 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
reasonable course of action, but we miss it
10/11/2007    17:38:24 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Well, the graph viz viewer is more like the Graph DAG Viewer 
than the Graph Editor...
10/11/2007    17:38:32 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I'll probably keep 1.101 around for when I want graphics to put in talks 
& papers ...
10/11/2007    17:38:52 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I might work up to the graph DAG viewer then
10/11/2007    17:39:02 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
yes, good idea Midori
10/11/2007    17:39:05 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	What's lacking the graph dag viewer that the graphviz component 
has? Maybe I can just add it to the OBO-Edit 2.0 graphing stuff?
10/11/2007    17:39:18 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	("lacking in" I meant)
10/11/2007    17:39:45 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I'm still in training for the graph DAG viewer. I made it to 20 minutes 
use today before it hosed my brain. I'm going to test it on david 
tomorrow
10/11/2007    17:40:00 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I think it just takes brain training
10/11/2007    17:40:12 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I had a question about that, Jen...
10/11/2007    17:40:16 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
yes?
10/11/2007    17:40:31 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
for me it's mainly the appearance, including that it can be configured 
separately from the main gui
10/11/2007    17:40:42 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
yes that's also inportant
10/11/2007    17:41:04 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Or maybe it's Midori. Anyway, someone said that when they 
clicked a term in the ontology editor panel, they wanted the whole path 
to expand in the graph editor.
10/11/2007    17:41:15 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
that was Jen
10/11/2007    17:41:15 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
that was me
10/11/2007    17:41:18 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
:-)
10/11/2007    17:41:25 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
see, we've got our story straight!
10/11/2007    17:41:34 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
true!
10/11/2007    17:41:40 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	It's quite easy for me to add that, but I wanted to make sure 
that everyone wants it to behave this way. If there's disagreement, I'll 
make it configurable.
10/11/2007    17:41:56 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I'm not quite sure yet as I haven't used it much
10/11/2007    17:42:02 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
same here
10/11/2007    17:42:02 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
would configurable be hard?
10/11/2007    17:42:17 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
it seems like this may be the new big thing and configurable is always 
good
10/11/2007    17:42:20 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	It would probably add 10 minutes to this 30 minute task.
10/11/2007    17:42:27 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
which one?
10/11/2007    17:42:44 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Configurability would add 10 minutes to the 30 minute task of 
automatic path expansion
10/11/2007    17:42:54 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
oh well that would be very very good then
10/11/2007    17:42:56 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
:-)
10/11/2007    17:42:59 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
thank you
10/11/2007    17:43:19 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
we're a little sparsely populated today aren't we?
10/11/2007    17:43:33 PM    from erika to All Attendees:
	yes, we 
are
10/11/2007    17:43:47 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I've just forwarded the invite to Harold, cos he's reported a search bug
10/11/2007    17:43:47 PM    from erika to All Participants:
	yes, we 
are
10/11/2007    17:43:52 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
is it just general chit chat today or is there excitement to be had?
10/11/2007    17:44:19 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Here we go.
10/11/2007    17:44:26 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
did you get lost?
10/11/2007    17:44:27 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I got dumped about a minute ago.
10/11/2007    17:44:37 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Anyway, I was saying -
10/11/2007    17:44:39 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
... and Karen E has just mailed a question to the wg list
10/11/2007    17:45:06 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I was just asking if there is anything important today as I think Erika 
is double booked and might appreciate being elsewhere if she would not 
be missing anything
10/11/2007    17:45:22 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Just one thing, I guess -
10/11/2007    17:45:37 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
yes?
10/11/2007    17:45:47 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	On the developers list, I got 2 votes for the massive 
rearrangement of OBO-Edit that I suggested on the Wiki.
10/11/2007    17:45:59 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I didn't really know enought to comment
10/11/2007    17:46:02 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	That's enough for me to act, so last night I started taking 
everything apart.
10/11/2007    17:46:07 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
oh good plan
10/11/2007    17:46:20 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	The short version is that things that have worked for a long, 
long time might start behaving weirdly. Keep an eye out.
10/11/2007    17:46:28 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I go neutral & quiet when talk turns to code innards.
10/11/2007    17:46:51 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
we'll keep an eye out
10/11/2007    17:46:54 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I have been noticing weirdness ... but since before last night!
10/11/2007    17:47:06 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
Are we gonna talk bugs today?
10/11/2007    17:47:16 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I think so - Erika, you're free to go.
10/11/2007    17:47:17 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
should we make another testing list for post-rearrangement?
10/11/2007    17:47:25 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
bye erika
10/11/2007    17:47:34 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I think everyone's pre-rearrangement list should still do fine.
10/11/2007    17:47:34 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
bye!
10/11/2007    17:47:37 PM    from erika to All Participants:
	I will 
stay
10/11/2007    17:47:41 PM    from erika to All Participants:
	for a 
while
10/11/2007    17:47:41 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
okay :-)
10/11/2007    17:47:54 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Back to what I was saying a second ago -
10/11/2007    17:48:10 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Jen, I saw your nice email about the new link expander popup in 
the graph viewer. that was one of two possible interfaces I thought of, 
and I chose the easier one.
10/11/2007    17:48:19 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
it rocks
10/11/2007    17:48:35 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
perfect :-)
10/11/2007    17:48:50 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	The other possibility was to list the links in a table where you 
could click the column headers and sort by term name or relationship 
type id (like in the search results panel)
10/11/2007    17:49:05 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Would you like to see that kind of interface, or is the current 
thing good enough?
10/11/2007    17:49:26 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I think that if there were enough that we'd need such complication then 
I'd just use the ontology editor panel
10/11/2007    17:49:27 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
Hi Karen!
10/11/2007    17:49:30 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
to seletc the child
10/11/2007    17:49:36 PM    from karen Eilbeck to All Participants:
hi
10/11/2007    17:49:54 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I think the current thing is great
10/11/2007    17:50:04 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Excellent!
10/11/2007    17:50:08 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Hi, Karen.
10/11/2007    17:50:20 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I imagine you've logged on to get some love for your filtering 
question.
10/11/2007    17:50:30 PM    from karen Eilbeck to All Participants:
absolutely
10/11/2007    17:50:35 PM    from karen Eilbeck to All Participants:
I need love
10/11/2007    17:50:43 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
(now he reads minds ... or emails)
10/11/2007    17:51:02 PM    from karen Eilbeck to All Participants:
Actually its really for colin batchellor who needs it more than me.
10/11/2007    17:51:04 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	There are two ways of handling this, and both involve global 
filtering.
10/11/2007    17:51:28 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	You could either add a global link filter that says "hide all 
disjoint_from links"
10/11/2007    17:51:48 PM    from karen Eilbeck to All Participants:
would this hid the disjoint from children>
10/11/2007    17:52:04 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Or you can take the more general approach (like ZFIN does) and 
add a global link filter that says "hide all non-transitive links"
10/11/2007    17:52:45 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	It would hide the disjoint_from children under parents to which 
a term has a disjoint_from relationship./
10/11/2007    17:52:53 PM    from karen Eilbeck to All Participants:
OK. I'll try this and get back to you . Thanks for letting me interupt 
your session.
10/11/2007    17:53:00 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Good luck!
10/11/2007    17:53:15 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Okay, who wants to lay some bugs on me?
10/11/2007    17:53:24 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
me! me!
10/11/2007    17:53:27 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I have a question:
10/11/2007    17:53:42 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
What do you want us to do when a supposedly fixed bug turns out not to 
be fixed?
10/11/2007    17:53:52 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
New SF item or reopen the old one?
10/11/2007    17:54:06 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Reopen the bug report, I think. That way the old info is 
available.
10/11/2007    17:54:14 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	What's still broken?
10/11/2007    17:54:14 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
ok, here I go!
10/11/2007    17:54:30 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
My drag-n-drop is still getting "stuck".
10/11/2007    17:54:59 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
that would sound really funny out of context
10/11/2007    17:55:21 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
<giggle> anyway ... Have you reproduced this, or do you want me to show 
you?
10/11/2007    17:55:22 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Does this happen no matter what you drag and drop?
10/11/2007    17:55:42 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Maybe you're doing something I didn't try -
10/11/2007    17:55:49 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Anyway, you should probably demo it.
10/11/2007    17:55:54 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I tihnk so ... I have one or two drag/drops- work, and ten I can only do 
the same kind of operation as the one(s) that worked.
10/11/2007    17:56:35 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
ok, I"ve got beta15 running, with GO loaded, so I'm ready to share.
10/11/2007    17:57:18 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
do you see my obo-edit?
10/11/2007    17:57:31 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I do now.
10/11/2007    17:57:35 PM    from erika to All Participants:
	no
10/11/2007    17:57:37 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	You'll have to do this quite slowly
10/11/2007    17:57:53 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
ok, trying again ...
10/11/2007    17:58:32 PM    from erika to All Participants:
	I can 
see oboedit
10/11/2007    17:59:12 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
it's gone
10/11/2007    17:59:16 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
hmm, of course with John watching it works ...
10/11/2007    17:59:30 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
maybe you coudl record it?
10/11/2007    17:59:40 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
It seems I can type in the chat window OR you can see my o-e
10/11/2007    17:59:48 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I think I'm going to need a step-by-step script to reproduce 
this one
10/11/2007    17:59:50 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
yes that's a mac thing
10/11/2007    18:00:02 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I'm sure I know what *kind* of thing is happening, but I need to 
make it happen myself to fix it.
10/11/2007    18:00:07 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
anyway, I"m going to try using hotkeys, because there *may* be a 
connection.
10/11/2007    18:00:17 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I'll also send gory details  ...
10/11/2007    18:01:15 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
GOT IT!
10/11/2007    18:01:22 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	So what happened?
10/11/2007    18:01:22 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I saw it too
10/11/2007    18:01:37 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I couldn't really tell what was going on
10/11/2007    18:01:43 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Was it related to hotkeys?
10/11/2007    18:01:44 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
OK, did you see two drags, both with 'add parent' in the popup?
10/11/2007    18:01:52 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	YEs.
10/11/2007    18:02:26 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
Yes, there seems to be a hotkey link -- I held down the 'p' key the 
first time, but NOT the second.
10/11/2007    18:02:48 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Hmm... can you include all this info on the bug report?
10/11/2007    18:02:53 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
Another thing about the hotkeys - I can't get them to work consistently. 
10/11/2007    18:03:02 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	They won't work once you're dragging.
10/11/2007    18:03:05 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
There seems to be improvement, because before they didn't work at all 
and now they work sometimes, but it's not reliable.
10/11/2007    18:03:28 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	The no-hotkeys-while-dragging thing is, I'm afraid, unsolvable.
10/11/2007    18:03:39 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	We'd have to use a different programming language to fix it.
10/11/2007    18:04:05 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
But are they supposed to work as in 1.x if I press the key first?
10/11/2007    18:04:21 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	If you press the key before you start dragging, yes.
10/11/2007    18:04:30 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
'cause at the moment I'm not sure it helps to push the key down first 
... I'll check again
10/11/2007    18:05:07 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
anyway, now my oboedit is stuck on 'add parent', so I'll have to restart 
it to get the other operations back.
10/11/2007    18:05:19 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Wait - what does that mean?
10/11/2007    18:05:42 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
"stuck" or "get the other operations back" upon restart?
10/11/2007    18:05:43 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	You can't select anything else from the drag and drop menu, or 
every time you drag anything it says "Add parent?"
10/11/2007    18:05:52 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
yep!
10/11/2007    18:06:05 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
watch (look ma, no hotkeys)
10/11/2007    18:06:39 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Now that's interesting!
10/11/2007    18:06:51 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Let me take a quick look at something -
10/11/2007    18:06:56 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
trust me, I just dragged, without holding any keys down
10/11/2007    18:06:58 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I'll be back in 2 minutes
10/11/2007    18:07:33 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
what was it that happened there Midori? I didn't quite get it. 
10/11/2007    18:08:11 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I tried to drag and drop, but the only thing Obo-edit would do is add 
another parent. No option to add chile, move, or merge.
10/11/2007    18:08:26 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
oh
10/11/2007    18:08:27 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
(add child ... we're not in alabama ;) )
10/11/2007    18:08:36 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
:)
10/11/2007    18:08:47 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
so you clicked and dragged?
10/11/2007    18:08:54 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
and there was a menu?
10/11/2007    18:09:08 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
did you hold a hotkey then drag?
10/11/2007    18:09:12 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
yes, but only the menu to select the relationship type
10/11/2007    18:09:16 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	It keeps behaving as if she has a hotkey down even when she 
doesn't
10/11/2007    18:09:21 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
oh
10/11/2007    18:09:26 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
that's right
10/11/2007    18:09:34 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
gunge under the keyboard?
10/11/2007    18:09:40 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
:-)
10/11/2007    18:09:41 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I suspect that the drag and drop system is interacting with my 
"what key is down" detector in an awful way.
10/11/2007    18:09:49 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
Also, I've only had shift+hotkey work once, in a dozen or more tries.
10/11/2007    18:09:49 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
ooooooo
10/11/2007    18:10:10 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
it doen't seem to notice when I let go of the key
10/11/2007    18:10:17 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Hmm... what to do...
10/11/2007    18:10:25 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Okay, what about this -
10/11/2007    18:10:39 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I would think gunge would also affect 1.101 ;)
10/11/2007    18:10:44 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
true
10/11/2007    18:10:55 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	What if I add a little control to the top of the ontology editor 
panel that lets you pick what the drag operation means -
10/11/2007    18:11:03 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I loves me some hotkeys ...
10/11/2007    18:11:16 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Hold on, Midori, I'm getting there -
10/11/2007    18:11:34 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	It might be a drop down that contains "General", "Add parent", 
"Add child", and all the other hotkeyed drag operations.
10/11/2007    18:11:45 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	When you drag and drop, it does what's in the dropdown...
10/11/2007    18:11:52 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	and the hotkeys control what appears in that dropdown.
10/11/2007    18:11:55 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
hmmm .... I guess I'd have to try it. It does sound better than drilling 
through the menus every time I want to do a link operation.
10/11/2007    18:12:18 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
Wait, that last bit got me confused. Example?
10/11/2007    18:12:23 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	That way there isn't a need to solve this tricky timing problem 
between the keyboard manager and the drag and drop system.
10/11/2007    18:12:25 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	For example -
10/11/2007    18:12:57 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	When you press "P" while the ontology editor panel is focused, 
the dropdown immediately switches to "Add parent"
10/11/2007    18:13:25 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
By magic? Do I have to choose anything from the dropdown?
10/11/2007    18:13:41 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
'cos what I love so much about hotkeys is that it saves a lot of mousing
10/11/2007    18:13:49 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
does it do it when you are typing in the text editor?
10/11/2007    18:14:08 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	No. You can use the mouse if you want to, but you can also use 
hotkeys to switch the contents of this hypothetical dropdown.
10/11/2007    18:14:22 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
brilliant.
10/11/2007    18:14:27 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	It won't interact with any text editing component, it'll only 
work when the ontology editor panel is focused.
10/11/2007    18:14:34 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
oh righty
10/11/2007    18:14:36 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
sounds good
10/11/2007    18:14:40 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
what I want is to add parents, children, etc. with minimal mousage.
10/11/2007    18:14:43 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	(The meaning of "focused" is complex, but "recently clicked" is 
a decent synonym)
10/11/2007    18:14:51 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
yes that sounds good
10/11/2007    18:15:00 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
if you are making that little menu
10/11/2007    18:15:09 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
could you possibly write the shortcuts in?
10/11/2007    18:15:13 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I can never remember them
10/11/2007    18:15:28 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Totally. Also, I'm using dropdown to mean "combo box", not 
"pulldown menu"
10/11/2007    18:15:29 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
for me they're muscle memory by now! ;)
10/11/2007    18:15:49 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
could you also make one for ad is_a child and one for add part_of child?
10/11/2007    18:16:21 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Yes, but -
10/11/2007    18:16:58 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	How should I do that? Since there could be any number of 
relationship types in an ontology, how do I know what hotkey to assign 
to which relationship type?
10/11/2007    18:17:04 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
true
10/11/2007    18:17:08 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Here's a possibility!
10/11/2007    18:17:22 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	What if the hotkeys only work once the "types" popup menu 
appears.
10/11/2007    18:17:46 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
that would be fine by me
10/11/2007    18:17:46 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Then, I can automatically make up hotkeys based on a 
relationship types
10/11/2007    18:17:51 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	's position in the list
10/11/2007    18:18:08 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
having trouble visualizing again ... remind me what makes this popup 
appear ...
10/11/2007    18:18:45 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	This is the popup menu that appears when you hold down P and 
drag and drop (in a perfect world)
10/11/2007    18:19:05 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	It contains a list of all the available relationship types
10/11/2007    18:19:20 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
ok, I get it
10/11/2007    18:19:27 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
thanks, and sounds fine
10/11/2007    18:19:45 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
yes sounds good
10/11/2007    18:19:54 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Question -
10/11/2007    18:20:17 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	This could be very confusing to new users. Should we make the 
dropdown of drag and drop operations always switch back to "default" 
once you've completed a drag and drop?
10/11/2007    18:20:35 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
that would be ok, I think
10/11/2007    18:20:44 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I tend to do a lot of the same operation
10/11/2007    18:20:52 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
so I might prefer it to stay where I put it
10/11/2007    18:21:04 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I'll make it configurable then. Savvy gals like you can put it 
in "sticky" mode.
10/11/2007    18:21:11 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
gosh
10/11/2007    18:21:15 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
sounds clever
10/11/2007    18:21:17 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
thanks
10/11/2007    18:21:29 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
yay!
10/11/2007    18:21:38 PM    from erika to All Participants:
	Guys, I 
think I need to go
10/11/2007    18:21:39 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
david will be impressed at that. It's one of the things that will help 
in content meetings
10/11/2007    18:21:45 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
bye erika
10/11/2007    18:21:47 PM    from erika to All Participants:
	Thanks 
for the chat
10/11/2007    18:21:50 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Bye erika.
10/11/2007    18:21:50 PM    from erika to All Participants:
	bye
10/11/2007    18:21:55 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
bye, erika
10/11/2007    18:22:05 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
are we finished that topic?
10/11/2007    18:22:10 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I found an exciting bug
10/11/2007    18:22:13 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
John - I have one other very small thing.
10/11/2007    18:22:17 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
carry on
10/11/2007    18:22:23 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
Is there a keyboard shortcut for commit? (i.e. when autocommit is off)
10/11/2007    18:22:33 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Ctrl+Enter should do it.
10/11/2007    18:22:44 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
it's ctrl-enter in 1.x, but that didn't work today in b15
10/11/2007    18:22:50 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
bug report time, then
10/11/2007    18:23:00 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
ok, Jen, I'll put in a bug report, so over to you
10/11/2007    18:23:03 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
ta
10/11/2007    18:23:18 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
John, you remember that save bug?
10/11/2007    18:23:37 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
Well the verification thing does something very similar in windows
10/11/2007    18:24:00 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
the bug that you fixed in Princeton
10/11/2007    18:24:07 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Which save bug are we talking about?
10/11/2007    18:24:17 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
the one that you fixed when you borrowed my latop
10/11/2007    18:24:24 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
the one that made the programme hang
10/11/2007    18:24:30 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
search
10/11/2007    18:24:31 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
sorry
10/11/2007    18:24:35 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
brain failure
10/11/2007    18:24:36 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	That's happening again?
10/11/2007    18:24:43 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
in the verification check
10/11/2007    18:24:47 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I did the verify view
10/11/2007    18:24:52 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	 
and I did a manual check
10/11/2007    18:24:55 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
and it takes ages
10/11/2007    18:25:01 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
and the processor maxes out
10/11/2007    18:25:17 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
and I can't even quit with the task manager
10/11/2007    18:25:24 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
very similar
10/11/2007    18:25:35 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Does this happen even if you turn off spell checking?
10/11/2007    18:25:46 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
how do I do that?
10/11/2007    18:26:09 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	You have to hit the "config' button for every text check, and 
choose the option to disable spell checking for that check.
10/11/2007    18:26:27 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I'll try that
10/11/2007    18:26:40 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
if the bug is still there I may be gone for some time
10/11/2007    18:27:04 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	It's almost time to go anyway.
10/11/2007    18:27:17 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Can you run the check after this and send a summary in the bug 
report?
10/11/2007    18:27:27 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
it worked
10/11/2007    18:27:35 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	So it's the spell checker.
10/11/2007    18:27:37 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Oy.
10/11/2007    18:27:43 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
turning off spell check solved the problem
10/11/2007    18:27:45 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
thanks
10/11/2007    18:27:52 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I guess I need to research other spell checking libraries. That 
one is too frigging slow.
10/11/2007    18:28:11 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
good to have a workaround anyway
10/11/2007    18:28:14 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
:-)
10/11/2007    18:28:21 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	It's time to depart, I think.
10/11/2007    18:28:30 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
thanks, bye then
10/11/2007    18:28:39 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Chris is here, I notice. Has he been saying anything?
10/11/2007    18:28:53 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	If he has, I haven't seen it.
10/11/2007    18:29:16 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
nor have I
10/11/2007    18:29:16 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
nope
10/11/2007    18:29:23 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Maybe he's just recording his own transcript.
10/11/2007    18:29:25 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Bye all.
10/11/2007    18:29:27 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
bye
10/11/2007    18:29:35 PM    from chris to All Attendees:
	wow how 
did you make my webex screen pop up?
10/11/2007    18:29:39 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Midori, can you send out a transcript? You didn't crash today.
10/11/2007    18:29:53 PM    from chris to All Attendees:
	just 
lurking, nothing to add this session
10/11/2007    18:29:58 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
ok :)
10/11/2007    18:30:03 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
(to both ...)
10/11/2007    18:30:13 PM    from chris to All Attendees:
	bye!
10/11/2007    18:30:15 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Okay, farewell. I hearby end this meeting.