OE Webex 13Sep07

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09/13/2007    16:32:24 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Attendees:
	Hi Alex

09/13/2007    16:32:41 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Hi, everyone.
09/13/2007    16:32:45 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I wrote to some cns experts

09/13/2007    16:32:47 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	Hi John

09/13/2007    16:32:57 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	our host has arrived! everybody switch to "all participants"
09/13/2007    16:33:04 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	Hi All
09/13/2007    16:33:15 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	What did they say?
09/13/2007    16:33:19 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	nothing yet

09/13/2007    16:33:27 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	waiting with baited breath though

09/13/2007    16:33:40 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I'm sure all will be well either way though

09/13/2007    16:33:50 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	how is iceland?

09/13/2007    16:33:59 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	I'm trying to have more plasticity with my feelings about these terms!
09/13/2007    16:34:11 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	good luck! A very laudable aim. 

09/13/2007    16:34:11 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	Sunny today, rainy most others.
09/13/2007    16:34:15 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	ah

09/13/2007    16:34:22 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Does anyone know if Karen is going to make it this time? If she is, I'll spend a few more seconds trying to get this feature working...
09/13/2007    16:34:31 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Until she shows up.
09/13/2007    16:34:33 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	not sure

09/13/2007    16:34:42 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	I haven't heard
09/13/2007    16:34:57 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Let's give her 3 minutes, then. I'll be back in a moment.
09/13/2007    16:35:08 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	will there be demos today?

09/13/2007    16:35:12 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	should I get ready to record

09/13/2007    16:35:28 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	I think John is doing some last minute coding.
09/13/2007    16:35:32 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	ah

09/13/2007    16:36:06 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	I've been hoping for a B13 since B12 was unusable for me.
09/13/2007    16:36:20 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	there does seem to be one in the offing

09/13/2007    16:36:24 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	I'm glad I'm not the only one.
09/13/2007    16:36:30 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	And wreaked all my preferences.
09/13/2007    16:36:45 PM    from Tanya to All Participants:
	I finally figured out how to get b12 to work.

09/13/2007    16:36:48 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	Luckily, I'd saved mine ... but I can't use them.
09/13/2007    16:36:50 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	it starts and loads for me but is a bit batty after that

09/13/2007    16:37:07 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	how?

09/13/2007    16:37:11 PM    from Tanya to All Participants:
	But I admit haven't been able to figure out the graph based editing too well.

09/13/2007    16:37:19 PM    from Tanya to All Participants:
	Deleted the .oboeditbeta directory.

09/13/2007    16:37:29 PM    from Tanya to All Participants:
	For the longest time, I couldn't delete one file therein

09/13/2007    16:37:32 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	we decided the other week not to worry about the graph editor

09/13/2007    16:37:45 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	john said we can put that to one side to get the rest of the tool out of the door. 

09/13/2007    16:37:47 PM    from Tanya to All Participants:
	turned out that even though I didn't think I had any apps running

09/13/2007    16:37:56 PM    from Tanya to All Participants:
	there were some 'zombie' oboedits hanging about

09/13/2007    16:37:56 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Okay, I'm back. I got the feature working.
09/13/2007    16:38:02 PM    from Tanya to All Participants:
	that I had to manually kill.

09/13/2007    16:38:05 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I had that too tanya

09/13/2007    16:38:05 PM    from Tanya to All Participants:
	Anyway...

09/13/2007    16:38:18 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Okay, shall we get into it?
09/13/2007    16:38:19 PM    from Tanya to All Participants:
	Hi John!

09/13/2007    16:38:22 PM    from Tanya to All Participants:
	Let's GO!

09/13/2007    16:38:22 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	yes

09/13/2007    16:38:23 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	Sure
09/13/2007    16:38:39 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Okay, first thing: Regarding the need to delete the .oboeditbeta directory...
09/13/2007    16:39:31 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I know that's annoying, but I don't see a good way around it. Every time I adjust the way the preferences are stored (and this is often necessary when I add a new feature or improve an existing feature), the old .oboeditbeta directory can get...
09/13/2007    16:40:09 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	That's okay, but we need to be warned ahead of time.
09/13/2007    16:40:18 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	I second that!
09/13/2007    16:40:39 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	seriously out of sync. But it is often very difficult to detect that it *has* gotten out of sync. I'm going to need to write a fairly complex tool for porting old .oboeditbeta data. It's pointless to write such a tool until the final release, because -
09/13/2007    16:40:47 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I'd have to rewrite it for each version of the program.
09/13/2007    16:41:07 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I don't mind deleting mine

09/13/2007    16:41:11 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	If you'd like, I can make the installer automatically delete your old settings.
09/13/2007    16:41:13 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I'm not even editing with 2.000 yet

09/13/2007    16:41:23 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	that would be good

09/13/2007    16:41:39 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	The real hassle is restoring everything ...
09/13/2007    16:41:54 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I don't really have much to restore on 2.000 yet

09/13/2007    16:42:11 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	is it the dbxrefs?

09/13/2007    16:42:21 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	copying over just the things you suggested didn't work.
09/13/2007    16:43:03 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	Jen - it's everything; f onts, layout, relatinoship iconss, load & save profiles, etc.
09/13/2007    16:43:18 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Yeah, I know. My attempts to write a porting guide for you made me realize the complexity of this task. That's why I've decided it may be best to just delete your beta settings when you install.
09/13/2007    16:43:20 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	(apologies for atrocious typing there)
09/13/2007    16:43:44 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	Yes, one can't get too invested in personalizing the program yet.
09/13/2007    16:43:57 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	that was what I figured

09/13/2007    16:44:12 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	it's still quite buggy so we may as well wait until it's more fixed

09/13/2007    16:44:19 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	If I don't change the font I can't use it! (The rest isn't so critical, I know ...)
09/13/2007    16:44:29 PM    from Tanya to All Participants:
	At least it doesn't screw up the 'official' version when you delete the .oboeditbeta dir

09/13/2007    16:44:33 PM    from Tanya to All Participants:
	which would be really bad.

09/13/2007    16:44:37 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	can you change the font in the config text file

09/13/2007    16:44:49 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	might save clicking

09/13/2007    16:45:19 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	There's another solution, I guess...
09/13/2007    16:45:51 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I could write a tool that ports OBO-Edit 1.x settings over to OBO-Edit 2.0 - that's easier, because OBO-Edit 1.x settings are stable.
09/13/2007    16:46:03 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	When you install, OBO-Edit 2 could always re-import your settings.
09/13/2007    16:46:08 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	that would be good

09/13/2007    16:46:21 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	you could also notch the default font up one. 

09/13/2007    16:46:26 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	oooh, I like it!
09/13/2007    16:46:46 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	Just having the load and save profiles would be great.
09/13/2007    16:47:07 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	and the visible font ...
09/13/2007    16:47:13 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Okay - I'll do it that way. Then you can maintain your stable settings in OBO-Edit 1.x
09/13/2007    16:47:22 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	(says the broken record ... remember records?)
09/13/2007    16:47:25 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	A question about fonts, then...
09/13/2007    16:47:45 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Should I not set the font at all, and just let OBO-Edit use the system default?
09/13/2007    16:48:11 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I don't really know how to set that

09/13/2007    16:48:16 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	What is the system default though?
09/13/2007    16:48:31 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	you could maybe just make the default bigger

09/13/2007    16:48:35 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Different on every platform, but it probably looks a lot like the font you're seeing in webex now.
09/13/2007    16:48:38 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I always adjust it up too

09/13/2007    16:49:32 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	As long as people using the program for the first time don't get an odd display.
09/13/2007    16:49:51 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	What font size are people using when they reset it in OBO-Edit?
09/13/2007    16:50:03 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I'll just check

09/13/2007    16:50:07 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	(It has to work on all platforms all the time)
09/13/2007    16:50:19 PM    from Harold to All Participants:
	I'm using 12, but it would also have to do with the users current resolution setting for their display
09/13/2007    16:50:30 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	14 size

09/13/2007    16:50:44 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	12

09/13/2007    16:50:51 PM    from Harold to All Participants:
	as well as their age 8-)
09/13/2007    16:50:56 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	probably 12
09/13/2007    16:51:14 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	mine's 14; it also depends on the font, but assuming you only change the size, don't worry about that.
09/13/2007    16:51:16 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	if i am working on laptop I use 12

09/13/2007    16:51:28 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Okay, I'll change the default to be 12. And I'll try to work on the OBO-Edit 1.x settings port.
09/13/2007    16:51:42 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Next topic, then:
09/13/2007    16:51:57 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	if you make it 12, I'll be able to read it well enough to change it if I want to ;)
09/13/2007    16:52:23 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I've plugged the new feature request priorities into my spreadsheet, and bulk editing is now the most popular feature request.
09/13/2007    16:52:53 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	Would that cover bulk cross-product editing too, a la Chris' matrix suggestion?
09/13/2007    16:53:16 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	Should we not get the rest of the application bug free before addign more features? I thought you wanted to release quite soon. 

09/13/2007    16:53:44 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I'm hamstrung by the difficult problem of being totally unable to reproduce many of the bug reports I'm getting.
09/13/2007    16:53:58 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	really?

09/13/2007    16:54:05 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	the whole thing seems very buggy to me

09/13/2007    16:54:18 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	hmm

09/13/2007    16:54:27 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I replied to a number of your bug reports, Jen. I could only make one of them happen.
09/13/2007    16:54:32 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	oh

09/13/2007    16:54:41 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	But I fixed it immediately.
09/13/2007    16:54:47 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	Thanks :-)

09/13/2007    16:54:55 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	How can I help with the other ones?

09/13/2007    16:55:03 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	Should I give you more information on them?

09/13/2007    16:55:07 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	A while back you said the movies of bugs in action helped ... should we try to do more of that sort of thing?
09/13/2007    16:55:10 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I think I need people to bring their bugs to office hours on Monday.
09/13/2007    16:55:32 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	Kind of like show 'n' tell
09/13/2007    16:55:36 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	If we made little movies would that help too?

09/13/2007    16:55:50 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	Office hours are quite short for us as you start as we finish

09/13/2007    16:56:19 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	Hmmm ... I'm willing, but it's now difficult for me to make 5-6 pm on Mondays. Can I (or Jen, or both of us) arrange a different time  individually?
09/13/2007    16:56:20 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Movies aren't so helpful. I need to see bugs in action, because I often want to say, "okay, try this now"
09/13/2007    16:56:30 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	ah

09/13/2007    16:56:32 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	yes I see

09/13/2007    16:56:51 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	can you get up earlier?

09/13/2007    16:56:56 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	:-)

09/13/2007    16:57:13 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Let's arrange a different time. I can do office hours this Monday starting at 7am my time.
09/13/2007    16:57:24 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	eek! that's early!

09/13/2007    16:57:36 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Logan wakes up at 5, usually, so it's not that bad.
09/13/2007    16:57:41 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	I'm impressed. But it would work well for us ...
09/13/2007    16:57:43 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	oh okay then.

09/13/2007    16:57:45 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	that would be great

09/13/2007    16:57:47 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	thanks

09/13/2007    16:58:00 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	ah yes ... you've got the extra-effective style of alarm clock ;)
09/13/2007    16:58:09 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I will save up some demos

09/13/2007    16:58:16 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I mean to show at the time

09/13/2007    16:58:27 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Nice. I'll have a new release out by then, so maybe I'll have fixed some of your problems.
09/13/2007    16:58:34 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Speaking of demos, on to the next thing...
09/13/2007    16:58:36 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	great, thanks

09/13/2007    16:58:49 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	I may not have much this coming monday (because of the #%&%# NAR paper) but I'll turn up anyway.
09/13/2007    16:59:00 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I have plenty to keep us going

09/13/2007    16:59:10 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Is there anything we want to show/do with OBO-Edit at the consortium meeting?
09/13/2007    16:59:21 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	we could show the funky layout

09/13/2007    16:59:26 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Are there any features that I need to focus on getting demo-ready for anyone's presentation, or anything like that?
09/13/2007    16:59:28 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	it's nice and it works well

09/13/2007    16:59:34 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	nothing for me

09/13/2007    17:00:11 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Well, that was easy, then.
09/13/2007    17:00:12 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	there's a slot on the draft agenda, but no specifics, no it is up to us.
09/13/2007    17:00:18 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	maybe you could ask chris if you could show the layout in the software talk

09/13/2007    17:00:30 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	... er, "so it's up to us"
09/13/2007    17:00:34 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	By "layout", do you mean the drag and drop panels?
09/13/2007    17:00:38 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	yes

09/13/2007    17:00:51 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	If we've got a slot for demoing, I thought I'd show:
09/13/2007    17:00:52 PM    from Tanya to All Participants:
	Sorry, got to go to other meeting now.  Will see the transcripts.

09/13/2007    17:00:52 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I think they're quite cool

09/13/2007    17:00:58 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	* Layouts
09/13/2007    17:01:01 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	* New search interface
09/13/2007    17:01:05 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	* Graph-based editing
09/13/2007    17:01:19 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	Bizarrely, the OEwg talk is listed under Aim 3, which is "annotation across all organisms".
09/13/2007    17:01:21 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	* New text editor
09/13/2007    17:01:31 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Huh. That is bizarre.
09/13/2007    17:01:42 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I think the graph based editor may need some work still

09/13/2007    17:01:48 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	but the others are good

09/13/2007    17:01:57 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Jen - you're right, but I can make it work well enough for a proof of concept demo.
09/13/2007    17:02:01 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	The slot doesn't say demo, but it also doesn't say not demo ... and I think a demo would be a great way to show progress.
09/13/2007    17:02:02 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	ok

09/13/2007    17:02:05 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	I think the graph editor is already useful as a viewer.
09/13/2007    17:02:14 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Which brings me to today's demo!
09/13/2007    17:02:30 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	<dromroll>
09/13/2007    17:02:37 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	<drumroll>
09/13/2007    17:02:46 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	(joke damaged by typo)
09/13/2007    17:02:50 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	:-)

09/13/2007    17:03:02 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I got tired of the terrible performance of the graph animations, and I discovered that the problem was coming from the difficulty in calculating those parent and child lists for every node.
09/13/2007    17:03:26 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	what do you mean by terrible performance?

09/13/2007    17:03:35 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	They seemed plenty fast for me.
09/13/2007    17:03:53 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	The animations were jerky in beta12, because of the way I had to change the graph editor to accomodate filtering.
09/13/2007    17:04:12 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	Oh, never got to see that...
09/13/2007    17:04:16 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	me neither

09/13/2007    17:04:35 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Anyway, I think the new proposal gives us a cleaner interface and speeds up graph redrawing.
09/13/2007    17:04:49 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Give me a few secs to prep the screen sharing...
09/13/2007    17:06:26 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Can you see OBO-Edit?
09/13/2007    17:06:31 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	yep
09/13/2007    17:06:54 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	oops, no, gone agani as soon as I hit send ...
09/13/2007    17:06:57 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	it's hidden behind the WebEx window (yours not mine)
09/13/2007    17:07:09 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	The new interface doesn't show any expand collapse controls until you mouse over, and then this is what you see...
09/13/2007    17:07:09 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	comng back now 
09/13/2007    17:07:09 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	now I see it

09/13/2007    17:07:10 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	Now it's there.
09/13/2007    17:07:17 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	got it
09/13/2007    17:07:22 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	I can see it

09/13/2007    17:07:32 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	gone again

09/13/2007    17:07:39 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	gone for me too

09/13/2007    17:07:40 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	same here
09/13/2007    17:07:44 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	you might want to minimise the webex window

09/13/2007    17:08:13 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	or just share oboedit instead of the desktop

09/13/2007    17:08:28 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	This should work better - I can't minimize it and still type.
09/13/2007    17:08:57 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	crashed again.
09/13/2007    17:09:02 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Let me try something else - sigh...
09/13/2007    17:09:18 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	can you report that crash on the webstie when you log out midori?

09/13/2007    17:10:12 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	are you having trouble there?

09/13/2007    17:10:12 PM    from Harold to All Participants:
	I keep seeing a black screen pop up
09/13/2007    17:10:23 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	black scree for me too

09/13/2007    17:10:27 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	me too

09/13/2007    17:10:29 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	I did too, briefly.
09/13/2007    17:10:34 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	You shouldn't be seeing anything now - I stopped sharing.
09/13/2007    17:10:39 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	john is trying to application share but not succeeeding

09/13/2007    17:11:11 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I'm now building and installer and installing OBO-Edit, because Webex can't share OBO-Edit when I run it from my Java editing environment
09/13/2007    17:11:20 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	(building AN installer)
09/13/2007    17:11:22 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	true

09/13/2007    17:12:00 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	what platform are yo on?

09/13/2007    17:12:03 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	mac os
09/13/2007    17:12:10 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I thought this worked on the man

09/13/2007    17:12:12 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	mac

09/13/2007    17:12:14 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	hmm

09/13/2007    17:12:37 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I think the problem has to do with the way that WebEx retrieves its window list from the operating system.
09/13/2007    17:12:38 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	maybe it was wwindows where you could chat and demo at the same time

09/13/2007    17:13:05 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	yes tht bit does not work, but there is one platform where you can't chat and demo and another where it is just really really hard.

09/13/2007    17:13:22 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Okay, here we go.
09/13/2007    17:13:59 PM    from Harold to All Participants:
	it looked like it was working
09/13/2007    17:14:06 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	it is gone now

09/13/2007    17:14:15 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	it worked for a sec

09/13/2007    17:14:16 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I can't type and demo at the same time, so watch for the popup controls as I mouse over terms...
09/13/2007    17:14:26 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	ok

09/13/2007    17:15:11 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Could you see that?
09/13/2007    17:15:14 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	yes

09/13/2007    17:15:17 PM    from Harold to All Participants:
	yup
09/13/2007    17:15:17 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	that did seem better

09/13/2007    17:15:21 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	Those controls do look easier to find.
09/13/2007    17:15:33 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	Ilike it too

09/13/2007    17:15:47 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	The question is, do you miss not having the at-a-glance information about how many children/parents a node has?
09/13/2007    17:15:52 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	no

09/13/2007    17:15:56 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	no
09/13/2007    17:16:15 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	no; in fact, it was kind of distracting to see if a term had lots of children
09/13/2007    17:16:25 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	... the list would extend past the term bubble.
09/13/2007    17:16:31 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	in the little dot

09/13/2007    17:16:38 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	you could make it bring up a list of the children

09/13/2007    17:16:43 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	presumably the bottom buttons would be hidden if there was no children?

09/13/2007    17:16:47 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	if you right click and

09/13/2007    17:16:53 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	then you could choose the one you want

09/13/2007    17:17:07 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Yeah - you'd only see buttons if they were appropriate.
09/13/2007    17:17:41 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Jen - I like your idea. If you right-click you'd get a menu like the hide/show menu at the bottom of the regular right-click menu, but with items appropriate to the button you clicked.
09/13/2007    17:17:48 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	yes

09/13/2007    17:18:06 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	good idea, Jen!

09/13/2007    17:18:11 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	that would be very intuitive I think and would mean we don't suddently get thousands of terms cluttering things up

09/13/2007    17:18:12 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	That would be great
09/13/2007    17:18:16 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	oh good

09/13/2007    17:18:17 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	:-)

09/13/2007    17:18:31 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I suppose some lists would be very very big

09/13/2007    17:18:41 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	whch might be bad

09/13/2007    17:18:44 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I also thought I'd show some kind of warning on a button (like a little exclamation point, or the icon in red or something) if clicking the button would expand > 10 new terms.
09/13/2007    17:19:14 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	good idea

09/13/2007    17:19:25 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	in tht case we can use the search to find the term

09/13/2007    17:19:41 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I'd also hide the list of individual terms in a sub-menu, so you'd only see the huge list of terms if you wanted to.
09/13/2007    17:20:00 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I don't get you

09/13/2007    17:20:16 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	In the right click menu, the items would be something like:
09/13/2007    17:20:19 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	* Show all children
09/13/2007    17:20:24 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	* Show particular child...
09/13/2007    17:20:33 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	* Show all descendants...
09/13/2007    17:20:54 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	yes that sounds good

09/13/2007    17:20:56 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	The items with a ... after them would bring up a nested menu when you mouse over them.
09/13/2007    17:21:10 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	we'd better start working up our right click muscles

09/13/2007    17:21:27 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	increase their plasticity
09/13/2007    17:21:33 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	exactly

09/13/2007    17:21:36 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	:-)

09/13/2007    17:21:49 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I guess I'm done. Anything else anyone wants to discuss?
09/13/2007    17:21:57 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	you know in the graph viewer

09/13/2007    17:21:59 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	editor

09/13/2007    17:22:08 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	could you possibly make the boxes smaller?

09/13/2007    17:22:22 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	currently we need to drag the graph around a lot to see what's going on

09/13/2007    17:22:28 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	but it's mostly all box

09/13/2007    17:22:31 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	not all term

09/13/2007    17:22:45 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Do you want the boxes to be sized so that they're just bigger than the text?
09/13/2007    17:22:51 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	yes please

09/13/2007    17:22:59 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	it cuts down on dragging and that's good

09/13/2007    17:23:12 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	like in the normal dag edotr

09/13/2007    17:23:15 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	editori

09/13/2007    17:23:17 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	oh dear

09/13/2007    17:23:20 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	can't spell

09/13/2007    17:23:24 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I can work on that.
09/13/2007    17:23:29 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	so everything is very concenced

09/13/2007    17:23:31 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	sed

09/13/2007    17:23:41 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	ta

09/13/2007    17:23:51 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Are you having a stroke?
09/13/2007    17:23:54 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	yes

09/13/2007    17:24:14 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	hunger..... need cheese

09/13/2007    17:24:24 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I'll do my best to make the display more concencedsedta
09/13/2007    17:24:33 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	that would be most kind.

09/13/2007    17:24:38 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	:-)

09/13/2007    17:25:09 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	can't type for laughing now

09/13/2007    17:25:10 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Okay, if you have bugs, please show up to the extended office hours on Monay. I'll be open from 7-11:00 mountain time.
09/13/2007    17:25:17 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	will do

09/13/2007    17:25:31 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	I thought the 'ta' was as in 'thanks' ... so the display only has to be concencedsed.
09/13/2007    17:25:37 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	yes that's right

09/13/2007    17:25:39 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	:-)

09/13/2007    17:25:44 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	That's much simpler, then.
09/13/2007    17:25:50 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	See you at office hours, then.
09/13/2007    17:25:54 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	see you then

09/13/2007    17:26:01 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	See you there. Bye, everyone.
09/13/2007    17:26:03 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	Someone save the chat please
09/13/2007    17:26:04 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	bye

09/13/2007    17:26:05 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	bye
09/13/2007    17:26:06 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	Bye

09/13/2007    17:26:08 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I'll save it.
09/13/2007    17:26:10 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I'll save the chat