OE Webex 15Nov07

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11/15/2007    17:33:27 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	Hi John!

11/15/2007    17:33:32 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	Hi!

11/15/2007    17:33:35 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
	Hi, everyone. Sorry I'm late. 
11/15/2007    17:33:44 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	Hi all

11/15/2007    17:33:48 PM    from melissaH to All Attendees:
	hello!

11/15/2007    17:35:15 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
	I've got a few things I want to demo today. Has anyone used the new version yet?
11/15/2007    17:35:26 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	b18?

11/15/2007    17:35:26 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Attendees:
	not yet

11/15/2007    17:35:30 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	yes
11/15/2007    17:35:32 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	just downloaded it

11/15/2007    17:35:35 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
	b19 - came out last night
11/15/2007    17:35:35 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
	not yet

11/15/2007    17:35:37 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	B19
11/15/2007    17:35:38 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	ah!

11/15/2007    17:35:39 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	no

11/15/2007    17:35:51 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	should we download it?

11/15/2007    17:35:51 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Attendees:
	not yet
11/15/2007    17:35:57 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	It works for the basic stuff I tried.
11/15/2007    17:36:07 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
	No need. I'll just demo the new features, and then you can try it out on your own.
11/15/2007    17:36:12 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	great

11/15/2007    17:36:18 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	ok!

11/15/2007    17:36:23 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
	ok

11/15/2007    17:36:43 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	everyone switch to all participants so john can read your responses

11/15/2007    17:37:18 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	(Why is that the default?!!?)

11/15/2007    17:37:50 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
	It's going to take me a moment to start this demo - webex is being a jerk again...
11/15/2007    17:38:09 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	Erika says webex is being slow for her, is anyone else having that?

11/15/2007    17:38:11 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
	It's being really slow to post the chat messages

11/15/2007    17:38:15 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	very slow for me too

11/15/2007    17:38:19 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
	me too
11/15/2007    17:38:25 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	my Webex behavior is strange Very strabge

11/15/2007    17:38:27 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	fine for me oddly

11/15/2007    17:39:33 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
	Here we go.
11/15/2007    17:39:44 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	how did you do that?

11/15/2007    17:39:50 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
	Webex can't share plain text documents, so I had to convert this to PDF first.
11/15/2007    17:39:57 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
	I used "Share document"
11/15/2007    17:40:02 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	ta.

11/15/2007    17:40:15 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
	Anyway, this is the ontology I'll be loading to demo the new id resolution stuff.
11/15/2007    17:40:21 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	All this time and nobody knew...
11/15/2007    17:40:37 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
	This ontology bears a moment's consideration before I begin.
11/15/2007    17:41:16 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
	Notice that term "A" has an is_a relationship to a term with id "beta"
11/15/2007    17:41:37 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	which is an alt_id!

11/15/2007    17:41:51 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
	Right. Even worse, it's an alt_id for an obsolete term.
11/15/2007    17:41:56 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	oh nooo!

11/15/2007    17:42:14 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	this is where obomerge goes a bit mad

11/15/2007    17:42:25 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
	(a_bit_?)

11/15/2007    17:42:31 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	:-)

11/15/2007    17:42:52 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
	Also notice that terms F and G have relationships to C, which is also obsolete
11/15/2007    17:43:03 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
	Let's see what happens when we load this up in OBO-Edit.
11/15/2007    17:44:05 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Attendees:
	I can only see part of the OBO-Edit window peeking out 
11/15/2007    17:44:12 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	That was wild.
11/15/2007    17:44:16 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
	Oy. We'll have to do this without chatting, as usual. I thought I had figured out a way to defeat the ignorance of webex
11/15/2007    17:44:18 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I'm recording

11/15/2007    17:45:07 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
	Can people see OBO-Edit when I'm in sharing mode?
11/15/2007    17:45:10 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	John, it would be possible to make the OE window bigger?

11/15/2007    17:45:15 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	only the top left corner

11/15/2007    17:45:18 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
	I don't see anything at all now

11/15/2007    17:45:24 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Attendees:
	I can see a bit of it in the turquoise area (in top left corner)
11/15/2007    17:45:29 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
	No, you wouldn't see anything now - I'm chatting.
11/15/2007    17:45:32 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Attendees:
	but most of the Shared Application window is white and blank.
11/15/2007    17:45:37 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
	Let me adjust the screen resolution over here...
11/15/2007    17:45:38 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Attendees:
	(I mean, it was before when you were demoing.)
11/15/2007    17:45:40 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
	what if you share your desktop?

11/15/2007    17:45:42 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Attendees:
	I'm on a Mac.
11/15/2007    17:45:52 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
	(instead of just the application)

11/15/2007    17:45:57 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	I see green

11/15/2007    17:46:04 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	I was able to see the window but not what it is written in it

11/15/2007    17:46:09 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	better

11/15/2007    17:46:10 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
	It's not easy seeing green

11/15/2007    17:46:29 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	Great!

11/15/2007    17:46:35 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
	YAY!

11/15/2007    17:46:36 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Attendees:
	Now I see it!
11/15/2007    17:46:41 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	I can see everything

11/15/2007    17:46:46 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	but goes well with red.... I can see now.

11/15/2007    17:47:08 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	that was good!

11/15/2007    17:47:43 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
	Okay - demo complete.
11/15/2007    17:48:04 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I recorded it for posterity

11/15/2007    17:48:18 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I think that tool is great

11/15/2007    17:48:30 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I needed it about two weeks ago so next time we will be ready!

11/15/2007    17:48:43 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
	This id resolver needs a little more work, because it'll show some weird messages if the relationship types aren't resolvable, but it'll be ready for prime time soon.
11/15/2007    17:48:56 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
	On to the next thing -
11/15/2007    17:49:07 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
	For the first time in OBO-Edit history...
11/15/2007    17:49:54 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
	Tada!
11/15/2007    17:49:59 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	Too bad Harold isn't here to see this!

	
	Crash
	
	Second part of chat follow:
	
	11/15/2007    18:05:08 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	hi again

11/15/2007    18:05:14 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Sweet.
11/15/2007    18:05:19 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	phew!

11/15/2007    18:05:20 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	Hey, Alexander and Jen have matching yellow stripes.
11/15/2007    18:05:26 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	nice

11/15/2007    18:05:26 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	wow
11/15/2007    18:05:40 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	(sittin' in a tree, k-i-s-s-i-n-g)
11/15/2007    18:05:56 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Anyway, on to the final demo thing.
11/15/2007    18:05:58 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	Oh no! We've been rumbled

11/15/2007    18:06:04 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	whatever are we going to do without you!!!!!!!!!!!!?

11/15/2007    18:06:22 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	shall I get recording goign?

11/15/2007    18:06:46 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	I'm turning yellow all over!
11/15/2007    18:06:54 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	If you'd like, Jen. I added a new software framework to OBO-Edit that makes it easy to add new graph decorators that rely on data from long-running processes.
11/15/2007    18:07:25 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	For example, you can add a decorator that fetches some info from a database, and displays a "working..." message while the data is being fetched.
11/15/2007    18:08:16 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I'm going to demonstrate the example I created using this system. The example is worthless, but even now Seth (of Amigo fame) is working on a non-worthless implementation that will talk to Amigo.
11/15/2007    18:08:51 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	My example looks through the GO file to figure out the line number where each term in the ontology is defined. It then displays the line number, and color codes the nodes.
11/15/2007    18:09:03 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	The blacker a node, the closer to the beginning of the file the term was defined.
11/15/2007    18:09:11 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	The redder the node, the closer to the end.
11/15/2007    18:09:20 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	natty

11/15/2007    18:09:44 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Let's look at it - this relies on animations, so you might not be able to see the "working..." message because of webex lag.
11/15/2007    18:11:05 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	I saw it!  Cool!
11/15/2007    18:11:09 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	yes great

11/15/2007    18:11:11 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I'm sure you can imagine what a useful version of that might look like.
11/15/2007    18:11:15 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	yes

11/15/2007    18:11:24 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	couldn't see it, bummer

11/15/2007    18:11:29 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	Now I'm turning red all over.
11/15/2007    18:11:29 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	is it like rendering on the ontology editor panel then?

11/15/2007    18:11:37 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	or is there something more subtle

11/15/2007    18:11:52 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	john- is this how I might view terms without stage assingments?

11/15/2007    18:11:58 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	It uses a combination of 2 renderers, a graph expansion listener and two sets of threads.
11/15/2007    18:12:04 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	(or other types of relations)

11/15/2007    18:12:45 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	This new mechanism is only appropriate for fetching data that is really, really slow to retrieve. Most other graph coloring should be done using the normal rendering system.
11/15/2007    18:13:41 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	And by itself, this mechanism doesn't do anything. You need a programmer to extend it to pull in data from some database or algorithm.
11/15/2007    18:14:24 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	But you should think about what kinds of heat maps (aka color gradients like the black-to-red thing in this example) and auxiliary database data you'd like to see.
11/15/2007    18:15:08 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Seth will be able to write a wide variety of these and distribute them as plugins.
11/15/2007    18:15:26 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	do you mean like if we wanted to load a big ontology?

11/15/2007    18:15:30 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I don't quite get it

11/15/2007    18:15:35 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Lemme back up -
11/15/2007    18:16:12 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	A normal graph renderer is used the moment a term is displayed. This means that graph renderers have to run very quickly, otherwise it will take a long time to expand nodes in the graph.
11/15/2007    18:16:52 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	That means that you can't design a renderer that relies on data that takes a long time to retrieve - like, say, data from a database or a web page (or from scanning through a gigantic file, as in my example)
11/15/2007    18:17:47 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	This new mechanism allows you to write renderers that rely on slow-to-retrieve data. It runs the data retrieval in the background, and displays a "please wait" type message while the data is being fetched.
11/15/2007    18:18:24 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	You probably couldn't see it because of webex lag, but as the nodes were being expanded, they initially had no special coloring, and instead of the line number message, they said "Loading..."
11/15/2007    18:18:55 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	Yes that was not visible to me.
11/15/2007    18:19:01 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	When the data was fetched, the nodes faded to their new color and displayed the new message about what line number the term was found on.
11/15/2007    18:19:39 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	ah!

11/15/2007    18:19:48 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	yes I missed all fo that

11/15/2007    18:19:51 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	This is exactly the kind of thing you'd need if you, say, wanted to show how many gene products were annotated to each term.
11/15/2007    18:20:05 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	yes I see!

11/15/2007    18:20:11 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	very good

11/15/2007    18:20:20 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	so we could attach it to the annotatio database

11/15/2007    18:20:29 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Yes, or to a more complex process
11/15/2007    18:20:29 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	and look at what annotations there were

11/15/2007    18:20:40 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	so we could render by species or something?

11/15/2007    18:20:45 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Yes!
11/15/2007    18:20:49 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	Aha!

11/15/2007    18:20:51 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	got it

11/15/2007    18:20:53 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	thanks

11/15/2007    18:21:00 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	for anatomy- expression data

11/15/2007    18:21:31 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Or you might color the terms based on how far they deviate from the expected number of annotaitons for a term at that depth. Then you could see too-specific/too-general terms by their odd coloring relative to their neighbors.
11/15/2007    18:21:44 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	very good!

11/15/2007    18:22:06 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	So start telling Seth what you'd like to see!
11/15/2007    18:22:12 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	ok

11/15/2007    18:22:13 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	That concludes my broadcast day.
11/15/2007    18:22:22 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	may I ask one thing?

11/15/2007    18:22:26 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Of course.
11/15/2007    18:22:34 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	does this mean that if there is an ontology that is too big for oboedit to handle

11/15/2007    18:22:41 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	it could maybe do it remotely

11/15/2007    18:22:50 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	or shoudl we stick to the version in the database

11/15/2007    18:22:53 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	and access that remotely

11/15/2007    18:22:57 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	for read only things

11/15/2007    18:23:17 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	it's taxon I'm talking about

11/15/2007    18:23:27 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Ah...
11/15/2007    18:23:29 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	the ncbi taxomony hierarchy crashes oboedit

11/15/2007    18:23:34 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	but it is in the database

11/15/2007    18:23:44 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Hmm...
11/15/2007    18:23:53 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Two answers -
11/15/2007    18:24:52 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	First - it is possible to do build a data adapter for OBO-Edit where the data is loaded remotely, and it is never entirely loaded into OBO-Edit memory. No such data adapter actually exists, but OBO-Edit is designed to support that kind of thing. That -
11/15/2007    18:25:02 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	would use a very different mechanism to what I just demoed, though.
11/15/2007    18:26:05 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Second - if you wanted to just use taxonomy info for graph rendering, then this new mechanism is perfect, but what I demoed today isn't a great fit if you actually want to do stuff with the taxonomy data besides display it.
11/15/2007    18:26:27 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Does that answer your question?
11/15/2007    18:26:29 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I think I just want to display it in conjunction with the annotation info

11/15/2007    18:26:34 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	yes pretty much

11/15/2007    18:26:41 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	John, when is your last day and last OBO-Edit web chat?
11/15/2007    18:27:00 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	My last day is Friday, December 7th. I imagine our last web chat will be December 6th.
11/15/2007    18:27:16 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	Boo hoo!
11/15/2007    18:27:19 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	Good to know.
11/15/2007    18:27:22 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	we shoulld have some kind of virtual party

11/15/2007    18:27:32 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	That sounds like virtual fun.
11/15/2007    18:27:32 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	John knows lots of good party games.
11/15/2007    18:27:34 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	for those of us who couldn't make the real one

11/15/2007    18:27:45 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	we could do webex whiteboard party games

11/15/2007    18:27:46 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	He learned many of them in 7th grade.
11/15/2007    18:28:00 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	reminisce about dag-edit

11/15/2007    18:28:05 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Whatever. Nomi is just peeved because she had to make out with the stinky guy.
11/15/2007    18:28:16 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	Eh?

11/15/2007    18:28:25 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	sounds interesting

11/15/2007    18:28:29 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	But that's the risk you run when you play 7 minutes in heaven.
11/15/2007    18:28:38 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	godh

11/15/2007    18:28:42 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	gosh I mean

11/15/2007    18:28:51 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	WebEx does prevent certain types of contact.
11/15/2007    18:28:55 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	true

11/15/2007    18:29:00 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	That didn't actually happen. Despite my desperate attempts.
11/15/2007    18:29:05 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	By the way, no one has applied yet for John's job.
11/15/2007    18:29:15 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	oh dear

11/15/2007    18:29:20 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	have you advertised it?

11/15/2007    18:29:20 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	We're giving away a free toaster now.
11/15/2007    18:29:27 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	Not surprising, given that John himself wrote the job description, which is an accurate description of himself, but not one that most people can aspire to.
11/15/2007    18:29:28 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Yes, we've advertised it.
11/15/2007    18:29:51 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Feel free to dumb down the job desc. If anyone wants to revise it, feel free.
11/15/2007    18:29:57 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	I was talking to Nicole about it, and although I agree that the current writeup does describe the ideal applicant, we may need to make it more generic
11/15/2007    18:30:04 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	shall we start asking around?

11/15/2007    18:30:08 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	and more appealing.  You've got to SELL it, baby.
11/15/2007    18:30:10 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	does the person need to be bease there?

11/15/2007    18:30:18 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	based

11/15/2007    18:30:21 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	Yes, definitely start asking around.  And, yes, they do need to be based in Berkeley.
11/15/2007    18:30:24 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	ah

11/15/2007    18:30:33 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	asking people in cambridge isn't going to help so much then 

11/15/2007    18:30:36 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	I know that's a limitation--but it is a great place to live!
11/15/2007    18:30:44 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	where did you get John

11/15/2007    18:30:50 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I shouldn't say this, but ask around in Cambridge anyway. An awesome candidate may be given special consideration.
11/15/2007    18:30:50 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	You could ask if they have a nother one

11/15/2007    18:30:58 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	okey dokey

11/15/2007    18:31:04 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	John was a fresh-faced young man just out of college when we poached him
11/15/2007    18:31:14 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	I don't remember how we found him.
11/15/2007    18:31:14 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	we could get someone like that again

11/15/2007    18:31:27 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I could ask at the computer lab here

11/15/2007    18:31:35 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	Yes, I think we should consider getting someone bright but inexperienced, rather than the highly-seasoned professional John describes in his ad.
11/15/2007    18:31:36 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	if they didn't mind a telecommunter in cambridge

11/15/2007    18:31:43 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	good plan

11/15/2007    18:31:50 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	open-minded might be the phrase

11/15/2007    18:31:53 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	:-)

11/15/2007    18:31:57 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I'll ask

11/15/2007    18:31:59 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	Suzi really does want someone here, but perhaps they could spend a few months here and then become remote.
11/15/2007    18:32:06 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	I think it's very hard to start out remote and have it work.
11/15/2007    18:32:08 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	Do you want Italians?

11/15/2007    18:32:10 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	could you send the job description

11/15/2007    18:32:14 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	John was in Berkeley for many years before he moved to Colorado.
11/15/2007    18:32:19 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	oh I see

11/15/2007    18:32:28 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	We have no anti-italian prejudice.
11/15/2007    18:32:29 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	the thing is they wouldn't be that remote from the users in cambridge

11/15/2007    18:32:35 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	I can send the current description and my suggested toned-down version to the list.
11/15/2007    18:32:36 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	we're mostly here anyway

11/15/2007    18:32:38 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	ta

11/15/2007    18:32:47 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Historical note: I was an odd case. I am the one and only person in Howard Hughes Medical Institute history to be transferred from writing accounting software at headquarters to designing scientific software.
11/15/2007    18:32:54 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	True, they'd have user proximity, but not developer proximity, which is also important.
11/15/2007    18:33:02 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	true

11/15/2007    18:33:09 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	we can ask anyway

11/15/2007    18:33:12 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	so I will ask also here in the north of Italy :-)

11/15/2007    18:33:15 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	must have been your sense of humor.....

11/15/2007    18:33:17 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	you could post the advert in jobs.ac.uk

11/15/2007    18:33:20 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	Yes, do ask around. 
11/15/2007    18:33:20 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	it's free

11/15/2007    18:33:26 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	very big coverage

11/15/2007    18:33:31 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	Not sure it's worth it to actually advertise in the UK
11/15/2007    18:33:38 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	given that we'd prefer someone local.
11/15/2007    18:33:41 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	lots of people go to berkely from there 

11/15/2007    18:33:45 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	just ask Amelia

11/15/2007    18:33:52 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	And getting US Visas for people is kind of a pain.
11/15/2007    18:34:00 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Jen, could you send that link to Suzi and I? It can't hurt to advertise on a free board.
11/15/2007    18:34:01 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	people are very keen to move to califonia

11/15/2007    18:34:08 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	sure

11/15/2007    18:34:10 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	You know, Amelia admitted to me that she's very tempted to stay in Berkeley.
11/15/2007    18:34:11 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	will do

11/15/2007    18:34:17 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I don't blame he

11/15/2007    18:34:18 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	r

11/15/2007    18:34:26 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I bet she's having a rocktastic time

11/15/2007    18:34:29 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	She is.
11/15/2007    18:34:40 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	And she's one heck of a guitar player.
11/15/2007    18:34:42 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I'll make sure to tell the minutemen we have another illegal immigrant we need to purge. Amelia will pay for her truancy.
11/15/2007    18:34:47 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	Do you think she could do the OBO-Edit job?
11/15/2007    18:34:49 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	Tell her we'd still love her if she decided to stay on

11/15/2007    18:35:00 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	I've no idea

11/15/2007    18:35:04 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	probably

11/15/2007    18:35:11 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	We should ask Amelia if she thinks she can do the job - I've never seen her Java stuff, so I can't say.
11/15/2007    18:35:20 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	I think she's more of a perl programmer.
11/15/2007    18:35:34 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	But I don't see why she couldn't learn Java.
11/15/2007    18:35:46 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	it's a very people facing job too

11/15/2007    18:35:53 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	I think she'd be ok with that
11/15/2007    18:36:01 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	I have no idea how good her programming is, I just like her.
11/15/2007    18:36:01 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	Guys, I should go now...are all OE things done?

11/15/2007    18:36:03 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	no harm asking

11/15/2007    18:36:16 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	Yes I should go to

11/15/2007    18:36:19 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	o

11/15/2007    18:36:21 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
	Bye
11/15/2007    18:36:23 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	bye

11/15/2007    18:36:29 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	Bye!

11/15/2007    18:36:33 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	bye
11/15/2007    18:36:40 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	byebye!

11/15/2007    18:37:03 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	I will send out the chat transcripts.
11/15/2007    18:37:24 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I guess we're breaking up. I crashed a few minutes ago.
11/15/2007    18:37:40 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Is someone saving the transcript?
11/15/2007    18:37:43 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	yes
11/15/2007    18:37:49 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	will send
11/15/2007    18:37:57 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Sweet. Bye everyone. See you next week. Keep on testin'
11/15/2007    18:38:11 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	two week probably
11/15/2007    18:38:14 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	weeks
11/15/2007    18:38:28 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Why?
11/15/2007    18:38:32 PM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	Thanksgiving
11/15/2007    18:38:33 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	T-day

11/15/2007    18:38:57 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Of course. Two weeks then. May the indians flee in terror of your smallpox laden hospitality.