OE Webex 1Apr08

From GO Wiki
Jump to: navigation, search

Nomi sent out this message on April 1st (April Fool's Day):

Hey, OBO-Editors,

As you probably know, it's getting increasingly hard to get research grants, and even grants that have already been promised funds often end up with budget cuts. The Berkeley group has therefore decided to pad the coffers a bit by using Google's AdSense (https://www.google.com/adsense/login/en_US/) to earn money from targeted ads that will be added to our websites and applications, including OBO-Edit. We make money (not much--but it's better than nothing) whenever someone clicks on one of the ads.

Here's a screenshot. The ad that AdSense serves is based on keywords, so it changes depending on which term(s) you select. When you click on the ad, OE brings up a new window with the web page that's linked to that particular ad.

Obo-edit-ad.jpg


Chat transcript

April 1, 2008   5:39:04 PM      from Tanya Berardini:   :)
April 1, 2008   5:39:05 PM      from midori:            first thing I did was double-check the calendar ;)
April 1, 2008   5:39:44 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Did you like the screenshot?
April 1, 2008   5:40:33 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Do some of you still have "Send to: All Attendees"? That excludes me.
April 1, 2008   5:40:52 PM      from Nomi Harris:       It's funny that WebEx is configured so that the default is to send messages to everyone except the meeting organizer.
April 1, 2008   5:41:06 PM      from Tanya Berardini:   Loved your April Fool's email
April 1, 2008   5:41:27 PM      from midori:            when I join it depends on whether the host has already joined -- if so, it defaults to all participants
April 1, 2008   5:41:35 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Ah.
April 1, 2008   5:42:00 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Anyway, I apologize again for the time mixup. I was assuming GMT == time in England, which is not always true!
April 1, 2008   5:42:05 PM      from Nomi Harris:       I promise not to screw it up next week!
April 1, 2008   5:42:07 PM      from midori:            but if I join before the host, it chooses all attendees, and I have to change manually wheth the host arrives
April 1, 2008   5:42:27 PM      from Nomi Harris:       So, has anyone looked at the purple "regulates" links?
April 1, 2008   5:42:32 PM      from midori:            time zone thing is particularly maddening now that we don't change clocks at the same time.
April 1, 2008   5:43:23 PM      from Jen Deegan:        just downloading the beta, it's been a mad week
April 1, 2008   5:43:45 PM      from midori:            just looked ot one now -- good and purple, all right.
April 1, 2008   5:43:48 PM      from Nomi Harris:       At least this time you can't blame me for doing the release too close to the meeting...
April 1, 2008   5:43:55 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Too purple?
April 1, 2008   5:43:56 PM      from Jen Deegan:        true :-)
April 1, 2008   5:44:07 PM      from Karen:             guess I
April 1, 2008   5:44:22 PM      from midori:            not to me; but then, I'm nearly neutral on the color question
April 1, 2008   5:44:27 PM      from Karen:             oops, guess I'll have to ditch some config file, mine are still orange
April 1, 2008   5:45:05 PM      from Nomi Harris:       I've mostly been working on the Delete/Destroy issues the last few days.
April 1, 2008   5:45:19 PM      from Nomi Harris:       I think the problem is that selection is handled oddly in the Graph Editor.
April 1, 2008   5:45:46 PM      from Nomi Harris:       You would not believe how baroque the selection process is. Thousands of lines of codes, and it's totally different in different components!
April 1, 2008   5:46:03 PM      from Jen Deegan:        oh dear
April 1, 2008   5:46:07 PM      from midori:            ow my head
April 1, 2008   5:46:12 PM      from Nomi Harris:       I know. It's a big mess of spaghetti.
April 1, 2008   5:46:34 PM      from Jen Deegan:        woudl that be easy to standardize? I'm guessing not.
April 1, 2008   5:46:35 PM      from Nomi Harris:       The problems come when you've selected a term (which gets a bold border) and then you mouse over a different term and right-click.
April 1, 2008   5:46:42 PM      from Nomi Harris:       (No, Jen, alas.)
April 1, 2008   5:46:55 PM      from Nomi Harris:       The OTE deals with this situation sensibly:
April 1, 2008   5:47:03 PM      from Jen Deegan:        ote?
April 1, 2008   5:47:11 PM      from Nomi Harris:       (Ontology Term Editor)
April 1, 2008   5:47:16 PM      from Jen Deegan:        ah
April 1, 2008   5:47:24 PM      from Nomi Harris:       The "selection" is the highlighted/bold-bordered term;
April 1, 2008   5:47:31 PM      from Nomi Harris:       the moused-over term is the "gesture target".
April 1, 2008   5:47:43 PM      from Nomi Harris:       The Graph Editor does things differently.
April 1, 2008   5:48:01 PM      from Nomi Harris:       It sends out two different selection events--one for the selected term, and one for the moused-over.
April 1, 2008   5:48:19 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Since they come in separately to the Delete method, it doesn't know which is the "real" one and gets confused.
April 1, 2008   5:48:23 PM      from midori:            from the hapless user's perspective it would seem the OTE and GE should behave similarly ...
April 1, 2008   5:48:29 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Yes, they should, midori.
April 1, 2008   5:48:49 PM      from midori:            glad I get it at least that far!
April 1, 2008   5:48:52 PM      from Nomi Harris:       The problem is that under the hood it's all different, and it would be a huge undertaking to centralize it.
April 1, 2008   5:49:14 PM      from Nomi Harris:       I think the buggy selection handling in the Graph Editor needs to be fixed.
April 1, 2008   5:49:30 PM      from Nomi Harris:       I noticed that "Merge" is never enabled in the Graph Editor, even when you've selected one term and moused over another.
April 1, 2008   5:49:37 PM      from Karen:             funny that it wasn't done centrally to start with, having selection behave consistently is fundamental to all editing behavior...
April 1, 2008   5:49:48 PM      from Nomi Harris:       This is because there is not an appropriate selection event that has a selection and a gesture target.
April 1, 2008   5:49:48 PM      from midori:            I second that!
April 1, 2008   5:50:03 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Yes, Karen, I agree, but there are probably reasons for the way it is.
April 1, 2008   5:50:18 PM      from Nomi Harris:       I would guess that it's this way either because some of the code (perhaps the Graph Editor) was imported from some external source,
April 1, 2008   5:50:22 PM      from midori:            None of us know those reasons, unfortunately ...
April 1, 2008   5:50:25 PM      from Nomi Harris:       or just because of the way the code evolved.
April 1, 2008   5:50:29 PM      from Jen Deegan:        yes it came from quickgo
April 1, 2008   5:50:43 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Ok--so quickgo presumably had its own selection-handling code
April 1, 2008   5:50:50 PM      from Nomi Harris:       and John left that in rather than rip it out and redo it.
April 1, 2008   5:51:07 PM      from Jen Deegan:        the author of quickgo sits in our office if you want to ask anything of him
April 1, 2008   5:51:09 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Anyway, we're stuck with it right now, because ripping it out and redoing it would not be a good use of my time.
April 1, 2008   5:51:21 PM      from Nomi Harris:       So I'm hoping I can fix this behavior.
April 1, 2008   5:51:28 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Jen, that's good to know! That could come in handy.
April 1, 2008   5:51:39 PM      from Jen Deegan:        David Binns he's called
April 1, 2008   5:52:25 PM      from Jen Deegan:        dbinns AT ebi.ac.uk
April 1, 2008   5:52:43 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Argh, I got booted just after my last comment.
April 1, 2008   5:52:45 PM      from midori:            OE's just gone unresponsive and is hogging tons of CPU ...
April 1, 2008   5:53:03 PM      from Nomi Harris:       What were you doing when it got into that state?
April 1, 2008   5:53:06 PM      from midori:            the reasoner is off; and I've just done a few selections and added a relationship.
April 1, 2008   5:53:08 PM      from Jen Deegan:        David Binns dbinns AT ebi.ac.uk is the author
April 1, 2008   5:53:25 PM      from Nomi Harris:       That's disturbing, midori.
April 1, 2008   5:53:35 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Did you launch from a shell window so I can see the output?
April 1, 2008   5:53:49 PM      from midori:            I think I've noticed similar things in previous betas, but not quite so soon after starting up.
April 1, 2008   5:54:07 PM      from midori:            Sorry, no, didn't think of shell start. I can bail out and try that; hangn ...
April 1, 2008   5:54:30 PM      from Nomi Harris:       If you can get a repeatable, I'll investigate. That's not good behavior.
April 1, 2008   5:55:00 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Did you all hear, I will be at the GO meeting.
April 1, 2008   5:55:06 PM      from midori:            yay!
April 1, 2008   5:55:06 PM      from Jen Deegan:        yes that's great
April 1, 2008   5:55:14 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Yes! I'm looking forward to meeting all of you.
April 1, 2008   5:55:23 PM      from Nomi Harris:       You can think about whether there are things we should discuss in person.
April 1, 2008   5:55:23 PM      from Jen Deegan:        I think we have the afternoon of the second day free if you want to meet
April 1, 2008   5:55:55 PM      from Erika:             Nomi, I will send a photo of me to Jen so you will see my face ;-)
April 1, 2008   5:55:58 PM      from Jen Deegan:        you could have a go at the icon bug on windows with my laptop
April 1, 2008   5:56:02 PM      from Jen Deegan:        :-)
April 1, 2008   5:56:06 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Yes
April 1, 2008   5:56:21 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Actually I'm going to add some printlns to the next release so we can maybe figure out what's going on there.
April 1, 2008   5:56:29 PM      from Nomi Harris:       But if we haven't solved it by then, I will definitely take a look.
April 1, 2008   5:56:44 PM      from Jen Deegan:        great
April 1, 2008   5:56:53 PM      from Jen Deegan:        we could discuss colours :-)
April 1, 2008   5:56:53 PM      from Nomi Harris:       I'm on a 5:20pm plane home on the 23rd, so I'll have a bit of time in the afternoon before I leave.
April 1, 2008   5:57:00 PM      from Jen Deegan:        good to know
April 1, 2008   5:57:56 PM      from Nomi Harris:       I have a question about Delete/Destroy
April 1, 2008   5:58:05 PM      from Nomi Harris:       There was agreement that "Destroy relationship" doesn't make sense.
April 1, 2008   5:58:19 PM      from Nomi Harris:       However, the way the menus are constructed, there's going to be a space for that one.
April 1, 2008   5:58:37 PM      from Nomi Harris:       I can make its name blank (which looks a little weird) and/or have text but have that option disabled,
April 1, 2008   5:58:42 PM      from Nomi Harris:       but I can't easily just leave it off the menu.
April 1, 2008   5:58:52 PM      from Nomi Harris:       What would make the most sense from a user perspective?
April 1, 2008   5:59:02 PM      from Jen Deegan:        either sounds fine to me
April 1, 2008   5:59:15 PM      from Jen Deegan:        it will just look a bit odd either way
April 1, 2008   5:59:34 PM      from Jen Deegan:        if it is greyed out I will jsut assume I never had the right things selected to get iit
April 1, 2008   5:59:43 PM      from Jen Deegan:        I wouldn't worry about it
April 1, 2008   6:00:12 PM      from Nomi Harris:       I just don't want it to be confusing.
April 1, 2008   6:00:30 PM      from Jen Deegan:        I suppose if people wanted to remove a relationship type from the ontology they migt be surprised the couldn't use destry relatinships
April 1, 2008   6:00:34 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Not that it's really any more confusing than before, since there was always a "Destroy" option for relationships.
April 1, 2008   6:00:37 PM      from Jen Deegan:        in which case a space might be better
April 1, 2008   6:00:58 PM      from midori:            I think either would be a tiny little bit odd but better than offering a nonsense option
April 1, 2008   6:01:11 PM      from Erika:             I like Jen's suggestion to put it in grey
April 1, 2008   6:01:21 PM      from midori:            Nomi - huh? We didn't see one in the menus ...
April 1, 2008   6:01:32 PM      from Nomi Harris:       I will see if there's a way I can make it not show up in the menu, since that would be best. It's just not totally straightforward, because it sets up menu option\
s in one place and then later on asks Delete what the menu option should say.
April 1, 2008   6:01:42 PM      from Tanya Berardini:   greying out sounds good
April 1, 2008   6:01:43 PM      from Nomi Harris:       midori, there were always both "Delete" and "Destroy" menu options.
April 1, 2008   6:01:49 PM      from Tanya Berardini:   and consistent with other programs
April 1, 2008   6:01:52 PM      from Tanya Berardini:   in general
April 1, 2008   6:02:21 PM      from Nomi Harris:       The Delete/Destroy menu options used to refer to either relationships or terms depending on what you selected and whether it had other relationships.
April 1, 2008   6:02:36 PM      from midori:            yes, but neither said anything about relationships; destroy has always acted on a term (ar at least that's how it looked to a user)
April 1, 2008   6:02:36 PM      from Nomi Harris:       I just made it more explicit what it's deleting, because I for one found that confusing.
April 1, 2008   6:02:37 PM      from Tanya Berardini:   sorry, got to run for today
April 1, 2008   6:02:58 PM      from Jen Deegan:        bye Tanya
April 1, 2008   6:04:25 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Anyway, I will continue to work on the delete bugs and menu options
April 1, 2008   6:04:31 PM      from Jen Deegan:        great
April 1, 2008   6:04:32 PM      from Nomi Harris:       and hopefully have it all working by the next release.
April 1, 2008   6:04:38 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Any other issues to discuss?
April 1, 2008   6:04:45 PM      from Jen Deegan:        nope
April 1, 2008   6:05:10 PM      from midori:            Anyway, I now think I didn't really understand the new helet and destroy menu options after all -- I expected to be able to choose 'delete relationship' or 'delete term' for any given selection (in the tree editor)
April 1, 2008   6:05:53 PM      from Nomi Harris:       No, *it* decides whether delete will delete a relationship or a term
April 1, 2008   6:05:58 PM      from Nomi Harris:       just as it always silently has done.
April 1, 2008   6:06:08 PM      from Nomi Harris:       The difference is that it now makes that explicit in the menu option wording.
April 1, 2008   6:06:16 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Does that make sense, or do you not like that behavior?
April 1, 2008   6:06:18 PM      from Jen Deegan:        oh that's nice
April 1, 2008   6:06:21 PM      from midori:            damn. in that case, the new behavior isn't actually an improvement for a user.
April 1, 2008   6:06:22 PM      from Jen Deegan:        I like that
April 1, 2008   6:06:46 PM      from Nomi Harris:       It isn't really new behavior, just new wording.
April 1, 2008   6:06:56 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Why do you feel it's not an improvement? I was hoping it made things clearer.
April 1, 2008   6:07:08 PM      from Jen Deegan:        it's just implicitly saying whether there are multiple parents isn't it?
April 1, 2008   6:07:10 PM      from Nomi Harris:       You can't delete a term in the OTE unless it has no remaining relationships.
April 1, 2008   6:07:14 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Jen, that's right.
April 1, 2008   6:07:19 PM      from Jen Deegan:        yes I like that
April 1, 2008   6:07:24 PM      from Jen Deegan:        less hunting
April 1, 2008   6:07:28 PM      from Jen Deegan:        more certainty
April 1, 2008   6:07:29 PM      from Nomi Harris:       midori, do you not like it? How would you prefer it to work?
April 1, 2008   6:07:30 PM      from midori:            I think if the behavior hasn't changed, then it looks odd to have the menu option change.
April 1, 2008   6:07:41 PM      from Jen Deegan:        the menu option wasn't very good before though
April 1, 2008   6:07:45 PM      from Jen Deegan:        I was never that keen on it
April 1, 2008   6:08:03 PM      from Nomi Harris:       The behavior has changed in that I have fixed some delete bugs.
April 1, 2008   6:08:12 PM      from Jen Deegan:        I think this is a good clarification
April 1, 2008   6:08:14 PM      from midori:            I guess I'm thinking mainly of continuity with OE1 -- changing menus could be taken to mean exciting new behavior.
April 1, 2008   6:08:15 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Also note that in the Graph Editor, you *can* choose to delete a term or a relationship.
April 1, 2008   6:08:40 PM      from Nomi Harris:       In the OTE, that choice was always made for you, and still is.
April 1, 2008   6:08:43 PM      from Karen:             seems to me that changing the names of the menu options to be less confusing is comparable to changing the names of the components, perhaps a little odd to longti\
me users, but helpful if the names are more intuitive
April 1, 2008   6:08:54 PM      from Jen Deegan:        me too
April 1, 2008   6:09:06 PM      from Jen Deegan:        It seemed to me before that that options were just not fully implemented
April 1, 2008   6:09:09 PM      from Nomi Harris:       I agree with Karen and Jen, but if you feel strongly otherwise, midori, I will take that into consideration.
April 1, 2008   6:09:45 PM      from Erika:             I agree with Karen and Jen
April 1, 2008   6:10:21 PM      from Jen Deegan:        I care more about colours than about this if you want to swap :-)
April 1, 2008   6:10:22 PM      from midori:            Well, it seems I'm outvoted.
April 1, 2008   6:11:22 PM      from Nomi Harris:       I guess so. But we still love you!
April 1, 2008   6:11:30 PM      from Jen Deegan:        :-)
April 1, 2008   6:11:48 PM      from Jen Deegan:        OBO-Edit diplomatic standoff.
April 1, 2008   6:11:55 PM      from Jen Deegan:        <suspence>
April 1, 2008   6:12:00 PM      from Jen Deegan:        spelling?
April 1, 2008   6:12:13 PM      from midori:            s-u-s-p-e-n-s-e
April 1, 2008   6:12:21 PM      from Jen Deegan:        thank you :-)
April 1, 2008   6:12:31 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Anyway, any other topics?
April 1, 2008   6:12:40 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Not much point talking about dangling references with the Davids not here.
April 1, 2008   6:12:54 PM      from Jen Deegan:        ho ho ho
April 1, 2008   6:12:57 PM      from Nomi Harris:       But it does sound like there's agreement to make "allow dangling references" the default behavior
April 1, 2008   6:13:02 PM      from midori:            yup
April 1, 2008   6:13:16 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Are we done for today, then?
April 1, 2008   6:13:25 PM      from Jen Deegan:        the sun is shining outside
April 1, 2008   6:13:47 PM      from Erika:             Here is the sunset!
April 1, 2008   6:13:52 PM      from Jen Deegan:        shall I save the chat?
April 1, 2008   6:13:54 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Yes please
April 1, 2008   6:13:57 PM      from Jen Deegan:        great
April 1, 2008   6:14:08 PM      from Nomi Harris:       Ok, "see" you all next week
April 1, 2008   6:14:08 PM      from Jen Deegan:        I'll remove our early conversation erika
April 1, 2008   6:14:11 PM      from Jen Deegan:        see y'all
April 1, 2008   6:14:15 PM      from Nomi Harris:       at 17:30 BST
April 1, 2008   6:14:19 PM      from Nomi Harris:       *not* GMT!
April 1, 2008   6:14:20 PM      from Karen:             bye