OE Webex 22Jul08

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07/22/2008    09:26:00 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Good morning
07/22/2008    09:27:12 AM    from Jen Deegan:   Good morning!
07/22/2008    09:30:06 AM    from Jen Deegan:   Had a good day Midori?
07/22/2008    09:30:23 AM    from midori:       Nomi -  Just got your email, and yes, I am going to commit a page that uses all of those images.
07/22/2008    09:32:01 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Great.
07/22/2008    09:32:19 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Hi Karen.
07/22/2008    09:32:35 AM    from Karen:        Hi:)
07/22/2008    09:32:46 AM    from Nomi Harris:  I don't know who else will be at the meeting today.  Amina is away.
07/22/2008    09:33:01 AM    from Jen Deegan:   When does Amina come back?
07/22/2008    09:33:07 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Wed, I think.
07/22/2008    09:33:10 AM    from Jen Deegan:   thanks
07/22/2008    09:33:17 AM    from Nomi Harris:  So I was looking at link search.
07/22/2008    09:33:20 AM    from Jen Deegan:   I have a thrilling log4j question to ask her.
07/22/2008    09:33:28 AM    from Jen Deegan:   yes?
07/22/2008    09:33:29 AM    from Nomi Harris:  It seems to me that OE1 and OE2 behave differently in terms of what they search.
07/22/2008    09:33:49 AM    from Nomi Harris:  In OE1, it searches even links that are hidden by global link filters; in OE2, it appears not to.
07/22/2008    09:33:55 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Which makes more sense?
07/22/2008    09:34:36 AM    from Jen Deegan:   I shouldn't think it matters much does it, as the hidden ones will always be hidden.
07/22/2008    09:34:36 AM    from midori:       ow. It might depend on whom you  ask.
07/22/2008    09:34:59 AM    from Nomi Harris:  But in OE1, some of the links the search finds are ones that are hidden, so it does matter.
07/22/2008    09:35:05 AM    from midori:       I mean, I could imagine someone expecting to find anything that's in the ontology ...
07/22/2008    09:35:06 AM    from Nomi Harris:  In OE2, you get a different answer.
07/22/2008    09:35:29 AM    from midori:       ... but it's equally plausible to expect only a subset of what's visible.
07/22/2008    09:35:36 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Actually, I think OE2's link search may be broken, but it does seem to be searching only the objects tha\
t survived the global filtering.
07/22/2008    09:35:50 AM    from Nomi Harris:  The brokenness is a separate issue.  I'm wondering about the desired behavior.
07/22/2008    09:36:35 AM    from Jen Deegan:   I suppose either all the searches should be affected by the filter or all should not. I imagine that bei\
ng affected by the filter would be the more sophisticated behavior.
07/22/2008    09:36:47 AM    from Karen:        If there's some debate as to which behavior is desirable, would it be worth considering having a check b\
ox, or options, to  choose the behavior you want?
07/22/2008    09:37:07 AM    from Jen Deegan:   that would mean implementing both, which might take more time.
07/22/2008    09:37:14 AM    from Nomi Harris:  The link search that was reported to not be working is searching for links that have type that have is i\
ntersection.
07/22/2008    09:37:25 AM    from Nomi Harris:  In OE2, this is finding nothing.
07/22/2008    09:37:34 AM    from Nomi Harris:  It turns out that there's a global link filter to hide those links.
07/22/2008    09:37:46 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Karen, enabling both behaviors would be non-trivial, I'd rather not try to do that right now.
07/22/2008    09:37:49 AM    from Jen Deegan:   Is anybody very experienced with link searching?
07/22/2008    09:37:57 AM    from Nomi Harris:  I'm sure not.
07/22/2008    09:38:02 AM    from Jen Deegan:   I have done very little
07/22/2008    09:38:04 AM    from David OS:     I've done some.
07/22/2008    09:38:06 AM    from Nomi Harris:  I think Chris is the local expert.
07/22/2008    09:38:13 AM    from Jen Deegan:   I use the one to search for redundant links.
07/22/2008    09:38:16 AM    from Karen:        was just wondering... I found link filtering so difficult in OE1 I avoided it like the plague
07/22/2008    09:38:22 AM    from Jen Deegan:   me too
07/22/2008    09:38:30 AM    from Nomi Harris:  You should see how the code works.  It's unbelievably complex.
07/22/2008    09:38:37 AM    from Jen Deegan:   it sound to me as if either behavior would be fine
07/22/2008    09:38:38 AM    from midori:       I've never done much other than finding redundant links.
07/22/2008    09:38:46 AM    from Jen Deegan:   unless somebody had anything to say on the subject.
07/22/2008    09:38:53 AM    from Nomi Harris:  David, is link searching important to you?  What kind of link searches do you do?
07/22/2008    09:39:22 AM    from David OS:     I use the link search as a filter in OE1
07/22/2008    09:39:43 AM    from David OS:     In OE2, filtering on links seems to be separate.
07/22/2008    09:40:11 AM    from David OS:     It can be done directly on the tree displays.
07/22/2008    09:40:32 AM    from David OS:     Works well for graph editor, but think it's broken in OTE in OE2
07/22/2008    09:40:48 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Do you have examples of the brokenness?
07/22/2008    09:41:26 AM    from David OS:     Most direct filtering seems to be broken (or unimplemented) in OTE in OE1
07/22/2008    09:41:46 AM    from Nomi Harris:  I'm interested in examples in OE2 that should work but don't.
07/22/2008    09:42:10 AM    from David OS:     Sorry - mistyped OTE in OE2 not OE1
07/22/2008    09:42:43 AM    from David OS:     I think there's a general bug ticket for this - not specifically for link filtering
07/22/2008    09:42:50 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Ok
07/22/2008    09:43:38 AM    from Nomi Harris:  David, did you try the reasoner now that Chris has removed the symmetric rule?
07/22/2008    09:43:42 AM    from Nomi Harris:  It's so much faster!
07/22/2008    09:43:46 AM    from David OS:     If this can be fixed, then I don't think there's a need for link searching in OE2 - at least not an obvi\
ous one.
07/22/2008    09:44:14 AM    from Nomi Harris:  I think Chris wanted the link searching fixed, so I should clarify with him what he needs it for.
07/22/2008    09:44:29 AM    from Nomi Harris:  I spent all day yesterday looking into it, and it's not a trivial one to fix.
07/22/2008    09:44:32 AM    from Jen Deegan:   It's great for redundancy.
07/22/2008    09:44:39 AM    from Nomi Harris:  But that does work, right?
07/22/2008    09:44:43 AM    from David OS:     Yep - I've actually been editing and browsing with the new reasoner.
07/22/2008    09:44:50 AM    from midori:       Yes, I' m with Jen.
07/22/2008    09:45:02 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Much better, isn't it, David?
07/22/2008    09:45:13 AM    from midori:       (and I think it works for finding redundant links, but I haven't tried in a while)
07/22/2008    09:45:53 AM    from Jen Deegan:   I am just loading.
07/22/2008    09:45:57 AM    from David OS:     It's a bit slow to get started and I got some prompts telling me memory was running low. But besides that - seems as good as old reasoner.
07/22/2008    09:45:59 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Did removing your disjoint_from global filter help with the slow text editing?
07/22/2008    09:46:08 AM    from Nomi Harris:  (That was to midori and Jen)
07/22/2008    09:46:11 AM    from Jen Deegan:   yes
07/22/2008    09:46:21 AM    from Jen Deegan:   still about four seconds but much better than 13.
07/22/2008    09:46:42 AM    from Nomi Harris:  For me it's less than four.
07/22/2008    09:46:54 AM    from midori:       I'll have to try again -- I think it helped but I've been doing mostly documentation lately, and I don't remember ...
07/22/2008    09:46:54 AM    from Nomi Harris:  So, about doing a release of 1.101, I can look into it.
07/22/2008    09:47:06 AM    from Jen Deegan:   Would that depend on the size of the ontology?
07/22/2008    09:47:07 AM    from Nomi Harris:  When I tried to get the code for 1.101, I think I ended up with 1.100.
07/22/2008    09:47:13 AM    from Jen Deegan:   great, thanks.
07/22/2008    09:47:18 AM    from Jen Deegan:   that's weird.
07/22/2008    09:47:20 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Jen, yes, a bigger ontology might slow it down.  I did test on GO.
07/22/2008    09:47:28 AM    from Jen Deegan:   I will load go.
07/22/2008    09:47:30 AM    from David OS:     One odd problem with new reasoner - redundant links didn't show up - even though they do with the same settings with old reasoner turned on.  Will\
 submit big report.
07/22/2008    09:47:45 AM    from David OS:     bug not big ;)
07/22/2008    09:47:52 AM    from Nomi Harris:  I figured.  Though it could be a big bug report.
07/22/2008    09:48:12 AM    from David OS:     I'll try to keep in small
07/22/2008    09:48:26 AM    from Nomi Harris:  It's ok.
07/22/2008    09:48:27 AM    from Jen Deegan:   I am working with a very big file just now and it is making OBO-Edit a bit flaky.
07/22/2008    09:48:45 AM    from Nomi Harris:  So, did you see one of my change notes for the last release:
07/22/2008    09:48:47 AM    from Nomi Harris:   Verification checks configured to happen "On text commit" didn't happen (SF bug 2008127)--now they do.  This may now be a better choice than "Dur\
ing text edit" for some checks.
07/22/2008    09:48:56 AM    from Jen Deegan:   yes, great.
07/22/2008    09:49:00 AM    from midori:       sounds good
07/22/2008    09:49:20 AM    from Nomi Harris:  I didn't change any of the defaults for that, but let me know if I should.
07/22/2008    09:49:49 AM    from Jen Deegan:   thanks.
07/22/2008    09:50:07 AM    from Nomi Harris:  And the rogue "Consider" menus shouldn't be appearing anymore--did you notice a difference?
07/22/2008    09:50:16 AM    from Jen Deegan:   which were they?
07/22/2008    09:50:29 AM    from midori:       Yet another thing I haven't had a chance to test ...
07/22/2008    09:50:35 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Midori wrote: "If I selected and dragged two or more terms, and dropped onto one of them, the consider/replacement menu popped up. It wouldn't mak\
e any sense to assign a term as its own consider or replacement term, so it doesn't make sense for the menu t
07/22/2008    09:50:48 AM    from Nomi Harris:   to pop up."
07/22/2008    09:51:12 AM    from Jen Deegan:   complex!
07/22/2008    09:51:20 AM    from Jen Deegan:   that's good that it doesn't do that now.
07/22/2008    09:51:37 AM    from Jen Deegan:   I just double-checked and commit is still 4 seconds on GO for me with no reasoner.
07/22/2008    09:51:39 AM    from Nomi Harris:  So if the link search isn't that important to you guys, I may put that aside for now.  What other bugs should I focus on this week?  Or should I n\
ext look into doing a 1.101b release?
07/22/2008    09:52:29 AM    from Jen Deegan:   maybe the obo-edit1 release?
07/22/2008    09:52:43 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Ok
07/22/2008    09:52:58 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Is someone else going to commit the new code to it?
07/22/2008    09:53:00 AM    from Jen Deegan:   Should I send you the code change?
07/22/2008    09:53:02 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Ok
07/22/2008    09:53:04 AM    from Jen Deegan:   it's very very small.
07/22/2008    09:53:06 AM    from Jen Deegan:   ok
07/22/2008    09:53:23 AM    from Jen Deegan:   I'll do that tomorrow.
07/22/2008    09:53:33 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Are there any other critical changes/fixes to put in 1.101b while we're at it?  (Or will I regret asking that?)
07/22/2008    09:53:38 AM    from melissaH:     hi, sorry couldn't be here earlier.
07/22/2008    09:53:46 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Hi, Melissa.
07/22/2008    09:54:03 AM    from Jen Deegan:   no I don't think there are any.
07/22/2008    09:54:51 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Ok.
07/22/2008    09:54:59 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Melissa, any bugs to report or other things to discuss?
07/22/2008    09:56:03 AM    from melissaH:     hmm, I guess the only thing I wanted to think about was the selection behavior.
07/22/2008    09:56:20 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Selection behavior?
07/22/2008    09:56:39 AM    from melissaH:     meaning, the best way to have two tree editors open, and use the select button from the search box.
07/22/2008    09:56:57 AM    from Nomi Harris:  What select button?
07/22/2008    09:56:57 AM    from Jen Deegan:   which button?
07/22/2008    09:57:11 AM    from melissaH:     (what we were discussing two weeks ago- not sure if we decided what the best behavior is
07/22/2008    09:57:21 AM    from melissaH:     from the search window
07/22/2008    09:57:25 AM    from Jen Deegan:   can you remind us?
07/22/2008    09:57:38 AM    from melissaH:     well basically if you click on a term (and have the select terms box checked)
07/22/2008    09:57:42 AM    from Nomi Harris:  The way it now works is that if you put one OTE into global selection mode, the other(s) go into local selection mode.
07/22/2008    09:58:06 AM    from Jen Deegan:   is it the loca/global button you mean?
07/22/2008    09:58:23 AM    from melissaH:     well, i just find myself clicking back and forth from local to global.
07/22/2008    09:58:38 AM    from Jen Deegan:   is that bad?
07/22/2008    09:58:41 AM    from melissaH:     but there might not be a better way, though we also talked about the screen lock button
07/22/2008    09:59:05 AM    from Nomi Harris:  I thought we decided locking wasn't so important if we got the global/local thing working.
07/22/2008    09:59:30 AM    from Jen Deegan:   that's what I find.
07/22/2008    09:59:37 AM    from melissaH:     I think so
07/22/2008    09:59:41 AM    from Jen Deegan:   are you having a problem Melissa?
07/22/2008    09:59:45 AM    from midori:       I vaguely recall deciding that one-global-OTE and lock did slightly different things, addressing slightly different needs.
07/22/2008    10:00:11 AM    from midori:       But I could probably get along fine without lock ...
07/22/2008    10:00:11 AM    from Jen Deegan:   I've been getting on fine without lock this week
07/22/2008    10:00:17 AM    from Nomi Harris:  I tried to fix the lock, but didn't manage to.
07/22/2008    10:00:48 AM    from Jen Deegan:   the only thing I've noticed is that the button is small and hard to aim for every 8 seconds.
07/22/2008    10:00:50 AM    from melissaH:     yes, I just wanted to be sure if there were other use cases that hadn't been met
07/22/2008    10:00:54 AM    from Karen:        I think the behavior in OE1 was about the same as the new OE2 behavior. You had to keep changing which was local and which was global as you wante\
d to change what was in a given window, and I also recall that the lock did something different
07/22/2008    10:01:24 AM    from Jen Deegan:   the difference now is that you can have both on local but I am getting on okay with that.
07/22/2008    10:01:56 AM    from Jen Deegan:   I'm finding it all very good.
07/22/2008    10:02:02 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Yay!
07/22/2008    10:02:06 AM    from Jen Deegan:   :-)
07/22/2008    10:02:15 AM    from Jen Deegan:   very very nice to edit with.
07/22/2008    10:02:24 AM    from Jen Deegan:   I am editing with only obo_edit 2 now.
07/22/2008    10:02:31 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Excellent!
07/22/2008    10:02:33 AM    from melissaH:     yes, we are about to switch over now too.
07/22/2008    10:02:42 AM    from Jen Deegan:   success!
07/22/2008    10:02:50 AM    from Nomi Harris:  So what do you see as the biggest remaining bugs?
07/22/2008    10:02:54 AM    from Jen Deegan:   must fedex chocolates to Nomi and Amina.
07/22/2008    10:02:56 AM    from midori:       Interesting; last time I tried real-life editing I got really frustrated.
07/22/2008    10:03:07 AM    from Jen Deegan:   speed is the biggest thing.
07/22/2008    10:03:09 AM    from melissaH:     I work on small ontologies
07/22/2008    10:03:18 AM    from midori:       I'll try again with b42.
07/22/2008    10:03:20 AM    from Jen Deegan:   I am working on a huge file just now too.
07/22/2008    10:03:31 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Yeah, speed is a tough one.
07/22/2008    10:03:45 AM    from Jen Deegan:   is there anything that I can do to try to figure out the problems?
07/22/2008    10:03:47 AM    from Nomi Harris:  I did some profiling and didn't find any big easy speedups.
07/22/2008    10:04:04 AM    from Jen Deegan:   I wondered about doing editing with the profiler working.
07/22/2008    10:04:08 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Jen, just what you're doing--telling me about situations where you notice major slowness and sending me your config files and ontology files.
07/22/2008    10:04:19 AM    from Jen Deegan:   oh great. I'll do that.
07/22/2008    10:04:28 AM    from Nomi Harris:  When Amina finishes fixing the filtered save bug, maybe she and I will look some more at profiling.
07/22/2008    10:04:47 AM    from midori:       I have some editing to do tomorrrow, so I'll try using OE2 for it.
07/22/2008    10:04:57 AM    from Jen Deegan:   that ctrl/shift thing was very odd wasn't it?
07/22/2008    10:05:10 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Yes, I couldn't reproduce that and am puzzled by it.
07/22/2008    10:05:15 AM    from midori:       wha'??
07/22/2008    10:05:24 AM    from David OS:     Would be great to have filtered save before full release.
07/22/2008    10:05:32 AM    from Jen Deegan:   when I select four terms in the OTE with ctrl-click the application flips out.
07/22/2008    10:05:35 AM    from David OS:     Sorry to sound like a stuck record.\
07/22/2008    10:05:37 AM    from Jen Deegan:   but not with shift click.
07/22/2008    10:05:47 AM    from Nomi Harris:  David, that is what Amina is working on.  She's out of town until Wed.
07/22/2008    10:05:58 AM    from Jen Deegan:   I think we don't need to worry about release yet.
07/22/2008    10:06:17 AM    from midori:       David - I agree. I don't do filtered saves much, but it's an important thing to be able to od.
07/22/2008    10:06:39 AM    from Nomi Harris:  midori, have you ever seen the behavior Jen reported?  Ctrl-click to select four things in OTE, then do right-click to get menu, and it starts thr\
ashing?
07/22/2008    10:06:43 AM    from Nomi Harris:  I haven't gotten it to happen.
07/22/2008    10:06:46 AM    from midori:       ... er, thing to *do*. (so's typing ..)
07/22/2008    10:06:55 AM    from Nomi Harris:  And I don't see why ctrl-click would be different from shift-click.
07/22/2008    10:07:09 AM    from Jen Deegan:   when I ctrl-click I choose non-adjacent terms.
07/22/2008    10:07:25 AM    from Jen Deegan:   it seems very significant to me, just for being so weird.
07/22/2008    10:07:27 AM    from midori:       Nomi - Can't be sure I've tried exactly what Jen did; I will try, and let you know what happens.
07/22/2008    10:07:50 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Jen, which file were you working on?
07/22/2008    10:08:02 AM    from David OS:     I often use ctrl-click to select non-adjacent terms and have never seen this.  Perhaps platform specific?
07/22/2008    10:08:13 AM    from Jen Deegan:   I just tried it on the GO file and it has the bug.
07/22/2008    10:08:18 AM    from Jen Deegan:   maybe
07/22/2008    10:08:28 AM    from midori:       loading GO now ...
07/22/2008    10:08:43 AM    from melissaH:     so, testing the global/local problem on b42. I think I might still need the lock button, or maybe I'm not being very saavy
07/22/2008    10:08:45 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Are you doing this on Windows, Jen?
07/22/2008    10:08:52 AM    from Jen Deegan:   yes
07/22/2008    10:08:59 AM    from Jen Deegan:   do you think it could be the serial redraw?
07/22/2008    10:09:07 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Can you try it on Mac and see if you get the behavior?  It all works ok for me on Mac.
07/22/2008    10:09:17 AM    from Jen Deegan:   it's like when I click several terms one after the other and then the crazy menus appear.
07/22/2008    10:09:18 AM    from Nomi Harris:  And I tried it with your config directory.
07/22/2008    10:09:23 AM    from Jen Deegan:   yes I'll try it.
07/22/2008    10:09:24 AM    from Nomi Harris:  The crazy menus?
07/22/2008    10:09:31 AM    from midori:       I've seen a lot of thrashing in betas 39-41 on a Mac, but haven't noticed any correlation with ctrl- vs shift-click.
07/22/2008    10:09:49 AM    from Jen Deegan:   yes when I just single click terms and the right click menus appear unbidden
07/22/2008    10:09:52 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Oh, you mean when it acts like you dragged when you don't think you dragged, Jen?
07/22/2008    10:09:54 AM    from Jen Deegan:   it's like that.
07/22/2008    10:09:57 AM    from Jen Deegan:   yes
07/22/2008    10:10:10 AM    from Jen Deegan:   it's exactly the same
07/22/2008    10:10:11 AM    from Nomi Harris:  I suspect that it's busy thinking so it doesn't have time to notice that you released the mouse before moving it.
07/22/2008    10:10:14 AM    from Jen Deegan:   but with ctrl held down
07/22/2008    10:10:21 AM    from Jen Deegan:   yes that would be it.
07/22/2008    10:10:31 AM    from Nomi Harris:  I looked to see if there was some way to make it less drag-sensitive but couldn't find any parameters that would affect that.
07/22/2008    10:10:40 AM    from midori:       Well, I just shift-clicked to select 5 terms in an OTE on local select, which went fine ...
07/22/2008    10:10:40 AM    from Jen Deegan:   I don't think it's that.
07/22/2008    10:10:47 AM    from Nomi Harris:  I did try to make it detect bogus drags (e.g. dragging back onto self) and not react to those.
07/22/2008    10:10:57 AM    from midori:       but then OE lost the selection when I changed the OTE to global select.
07/22/2008    10:11:03 AM    from Jen Deegan:   I think maybe it is redrawing really intensively or something.
07/22/2008    10:11:11 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Sounds like maybe it's Windows-specific?
07/22/2008    10:11:17 AM    from Jen Deegan:   yes maybe.
07/22/2008    10:11:21 AM    from Jen Deegan:   I will check on the mac.
07/22/2008    10:11:25 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Melissa, maybe you can try it--load GO and then ctrl-click four things in the OTE.
07/22/2008    10:11:31 AM    from Nomi Harris:  (Melissa is on Windows.)
07/22/2008    10:11:32 AM    from Jen Deegan:   whatever it does when I click it's thinks really hard abotu it.
07/22/2008    10:11:57 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Jen, also, you have a lot of components open--try closing some of them and see if that makes a difference.
07/22/2008    10:12:02 AM    from midori:       happily ctrl-clicking several terms (more than 4) with no thrashing
07/22/2008    10:12:06 AM    from melissaH:     it lets me do it
07/22/2008    10:12:36 AM    from Jen Deegan:   It's the same with only one OTE and nothing else.
07/22/2008    10:12:57 AM    from midori:       I should see how it goes after OE's been running a while. For a long time/many betas now, I've seen performance degrade over time.
07/22/2008    10:13:10 AM    from Nomi Harris:  I think that's probably because of memory leaks.
07/22/2008    10:13:10 AM    from melissaH:     but sometimes requires a number of clicks
07/22/2008    10:13:22 AM    from melissaH:     I'm doing it on the OTE
07/22/2008    10:13:31 AM    from midori:       The CPU spikes I reported for b40 (or thereabouts) would crop up after a little while, not immediately.
07/22/2008    10:13:37 AM    from Nomi Harris:  So weird that only Jen is having the problem.  Jen, did you try moving your config directory out of the way and starting fresh?
07/22/2008    10:13:43 AM    from Jen Deegan:   Oddly the rogue menus are much much better now.
07/22/2008    10:13:46 AM    from Nomi Harris:  midori, are you still seeing the CPU spikes?
07/22/2008    10:13:52 AM    from melissaH:     other times I get the menus popping up
07/22/2008    10:14:35 AM    from Jen Deegan:   I will try moving my config directory.
07/22/2008    10:14:44 AM    from midori:       5 min spike-free so far ... must test more, though.
07/22/2008    10:15:01 AM    from Jen Deegan:   It happens immediately with me.
07/22/2008    10:15:15 AM    from Nomi Harris:  The problem with selecting four things happens immediately with you?
07/22/2008    10:15:22 AM    from midori:       Re rogue 'consider' menu -- looks fine now (dragging terms onto one of the terms now does nothing, as expected).
07/22/2008    10:15:23 AM    from Jen Deegan:   yes
07/22/2008    10:15:26 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Weird.
07/22/2008    10:15:35 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Maybe you and midori can try it together and compare notes.
07/22/2008    10:15:41 AM    from Nomi Harris:  You'll try it on a Mac, right?
07/22/2008    10:15:43 AM    from midori:       does it matter which four things?
07/22/2008    10:16:08 AM    from Jen Deegan:   yes I'll try tomorrow.
07/22/2008    10:16:14 AM    from Jen Deegan:   any four things are the same.
07/22/2008    10:16:23 AM    from midori:       I've just tried on a few function terms with only one path each.
07/22/2008    10:16:30 AM    from midori:       ah, so much for that idea, then.
07/22/2008    10:16:33 AM    from melissaH:     my problem is once I have four things selected, its hard to unselect or do anything with them.
07/22/2008    10:16:44 AM    from Jen Deegan:   same with new config and fresh restart.
07/22/2008    10:17:16 AM    from Jen Deegan:   mine selects two immediately but the third and fourth take time.
07/22/2008    10:17:17 AM    from Nomi Harris:  That is very odd.  Especially since Melissa is not seeing that behavior on Windows.  Maybe your Windows box is cursed, Jen.
07/22/2008    10:17:23 AM    from Nomi Harris:  I think it's a sign that you should switch to Mac.:-)
07/22/2008    10:17:29 AM    from Jen Deegan:   definately.
07/22/2008    10:17:34 AM    from midori:       hmm, still takes noticeable longer to add a new term than in OE1
07/22/2008    10:17:36 AM    from Jen Deegan:   are you on xp home melissa?
07/22/2008    10:17:39 AM    from Nomi Harris:  (Although it's good to have someone testing on Windows, since some of our poor users are stuck on Windows.)
07/22/2008    10:17:39 AM    from melissaH:     I am not sure what behavior Jen is seeing though- what does thrashing mean?
07/22/2008    10:18:01 AM    from Jen Deegan:   I hold ctrl and click four terms and it thinks for a long time before makign them blue.
07/22/2008    10:18:01 AM    from midori:       DAMMIT!
07/22/2008    10:18:08 AM    from Nomi Harris:  It is taking a very long time for her to get the right-mouse popup menu to come up, and in the meantime, her machine is thinking hard and running its fan.
07/22/2008    10:18:12 AM    from melissaH:     I'm on xp pro
07/22/2008    10:18:17 AM    from Nomi Harris:  midori, what?
07/22/2008    10:18:37 AM    from midori:       Got autocommit off. Just added a term, hit commit, clicked on a new term, and got the "uncommitted text edits" message!!!
07/22/2008    10:18:40 AM    from melissaH:     yes it does that for me too- I have to wait in between each term
07/22/2008    10:18:42 AM    from Jen Deegan:   once John found that I was the only one with a bug because I had xp home
07/22/2008    10:19:13 AM    from Nomi Harris:  midori, I will look into that.
07/22/2008    10:19:25 AM    from Nomi Harris:  I wasn't getting that message, but I will see if I can make it happen.
07/22/2008    10:19:36 AM    from midori:       Harold reported it too, a beta or two ago.
07/22/2008    10:19:54 AM    from Nomi Harris:  I thought it might have been fixed by some changes I made in the Text Editor in b42.
07/22/2008    10:19:59 AM    from David OS:     I can happily select 10 terms with ctrl-clik. However, if I try to move them to another term I get that weird 'Add consider or replace prompt'
07/22/2008    10:20:05 AM    from Jen Deegan:   actually Tim has xp home, maybe I could test on his machine.
07/22/2008    10:20:56 AM    from melissaH:     ok, so my selection problem..... I often search for something and then only want to find it in one of my OTEs. I want to keep the other one where it is. but every time I switch from local to global, it goes to the primary selected term. does this mean that I need a lock button?
07/22/2008    10:21:16 AM    from midori:       If I tell the annoying pop-up to abandon the text edits I've just made (and committed), they stick .... i.e. the edits got committed correctly, but the message popped up anyway.
07/22/2008    10:21:46 AM    from Jen Deegan:   are you on b42 Melissa?
07/22/2008    10:21:50 AM    from Nomi Harris:  That's annoying, midori.
07/22/2008    10:21:53 AM    from melissaH:     yes
07/22/2008    10:21:56 AM    from Nomi Harris:  I will look at that today.
07/22/2008    10:21:59 AM    from Jen Deegan:   I'll check too.
07/22/2008    10:22:31 AM    from midori:       this is in b41 and b42 (just switched over to b42 at home today)
07/22/2008    10:23:01 AM    from Jen Deegan:   I don't have that problem in b42.
07/22/2008    10:23:10 AM    from Jen Deegan:   Melissa's
07/22/2008    10:23:21 AM    from midori:       oh yay, personalized bugs again
07/22/2008    10:24:05 AM    from Jen Deegan:   the best kind.
07/22/2008    10:24:15 AM    from Nomi Harris:  They're so *special*.
07/22/2008    10:24:30 AM    from Jen Deegan:   :-)
07/22/2008    10:24:44 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Are we done for today?
07/22/2008    10:24:47 AM    from Jen Deegan:   they joke about debigging java in each OS, but each machine is going a bit far.
07/22/2008    10:24:58 AM    from Jen Deegan:   yes I would think so. Dinner beckons.
07/22/2008    10:25:08 AM    from Nomi Harris:  Ok, thanks for coming, bye!
07/22/2008    10:25:10 AM    from Jen Deegan:   Thanks for all your work Nomi.
07/22/2008    10:25:14 AM    from Jen Deegan:   cheerio.