OE Webex 26Feb08

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02/26/2008    17:26:58 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	and 
Midori

02/26/2008    17:27:02 PM    from midori to All Participants:
hi
02/26/2008    17:28:36 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
hi
02/26/2008    17:29:11 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Thank you for being so prompt!
02/26/2008    17:29:37 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	:-)

02/26/2008    17:30:18 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Erika, thanks for offering to document how to get OE to work with Chebi
02/26/2008    17:30:29 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Sorry, ChEBI
02/26/2008    17:30:32 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	Here is 
the end of the working day so webex chat is a very interesting stuff for 
ending the day

02/26/2008    17:30:48 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
as well as loading multiple ontologies and other useful tips.
02/26/2008    17:30:51 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	 I 
always have problems with ChEBI

02/26/2008    17:30:58 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
That would be great!
02/26/2008    17:31:08 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	and when 
John found the solution it was fantastic!

02/26/2008    17:31:17 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
You can either make a Web page, or just send me text and I'll make it.
02/26/2008    17:31:42 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Whichever you prefer.
02/26/2008    17:31:49 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	I will 
start writing the document and then I will decide

02/26/2008    17:32:02 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Cool.
02/26/2008    17:32:05 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	I like 
creating web page

02/26/2008    17:32:25 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
You should be able to just take one of the existing help pages and 
modify it, so you stick with the current style.
02/26/2008    17:32:39 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	oh, 
good!

02/26/2008    17:32:40 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
The harder part is checking your page, because it needs to be able to 
find the css.
02/26/2008    17:33:10 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Also, your page will not be added automatically to the table of 
contents.  That requires mucking with a .jhm and a .xml and then using 
ant to build the TOC.
02/26/2008    17:33:17 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Hi, David.
02/26/2008    17:33:27 PM    from David OS to All Participants:
Hi Nomi
02/26/2008    17:33:35 PM    from David OS to All Participants:
et al
02/26/2008    17:33:48 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Anyway, Erika, don't worry if your page doesn't look perfect; I can 
easily tweak it.  The content is the important part.
02/26/2008    17:34:26 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	Ok, I 
will concentrate on the content and try to write in a "perfect" English 

02/26/2008    17:34:38 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Don't worry about that, either! 
02/26/2008    17:34:47 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	phiuu, 
phiuuu!

02/26/2008    17:35:01 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
As long as it's clear what you mean, I can fix any typos or grammatical 
oddities or whatever.
02/26/2008    17:35:15 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
fantastic! thanks for that

02/26/2008    17:35:41 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Thank *you* for volunteering to help with documentation!
02/26/2008    17:35:56 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	:-) Any 
time!

02/26/2008    17:36:04 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
So, did anyone try b31?  Sorry for not giving you much time to do that.
02/26/2008    17:36:18 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	I just 
tried to run it

02/26/2008    17:36:22 PM    from midori to All Participants:
I have downloaded it, installed it, and started it up.
02/26/2008    17:36:30 PM    from midori to All Participants:
So far, so good!
02/26/2008    17:36:34 PM    from Wasila to All Participants:
Hi, I've played with it a bit - I like the new colors for tabs
02/26/2008    17:36:37 PM    from David OS to All Participants:
Just fired it up for the first time about 5' ago.  Looks a little 
different.
02/26/2008    17:36:37 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
As I said, I intended to release it on Friday, but was in the middle of 
tracking down that bug that sometimes made it impossible to save 
ontologies that resulted in warnings.
02/26/2008    17:36:47 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
It looks different?  Maybe just the tab colors?  How else?
02/26/2008    17:36:59 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
And Erika, you "tried" to run it?  Did it not work?
02/26/2008    17:37:08 PM    from midori to All Participants:
I guess the tab colors are fine, since I barely noticed the change ...
02/26/2008    17:37:10 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	oh no! 
it worked 

02/26/2008    17:37:14 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Oh, phew!
02/26/2008    17:37:22 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	I tried 
Unix version

02/26/2008    17:38:17 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
That bug with the verification window not going away was complicated to 
fix, and it's possible that my fix could have unintended repercussions 
in other cases where there are popup dialogs that have to listen for 
events.
02/26/2008    17:38:35 PM    from David OS to All Participants:
The tabs themselves look a little different. Also, when a tab had 
multiple components did it show all separated by comma before?  Does 
now, which is good. I tend to get lost with all these tabs and panels.
02/26/2008    17:38:45 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
The whole system relies on these timers that make components ask, "Did 
anything interesting happen?  Did anything interesting happen now?  How 
about now?" every few milliseconds.  A somewhat unusual approach.
02/26/2008    17:39:22 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
David, I didn't intentionally change the comma thing, but I did change 
the visual style of the tabs.  They no longer have the gradient (which 
was kind of artistic but made it harder to read the text on them).
02/26/2008    17:39:33 PM    from midori to All Participants:
It looks like my global filetrs bug is fixed (the one where adding or 
removing a global filter required restarting).
02/26/2008    17:39:41 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Fixed by elves, apparently!
02/26/2008    17:39:48 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Because I didn't fix that one!
02/26/2008    17:40:26 PM    from midori to All Participants:
Weird. Maybe there was some bizarre connection with the "Did anything 
interesting happen?" business ...
02/26/2008    17:40:34 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Possibly!
02/26/2008    17:40:51 PM    from midori to All Participants:
... or maybe it's waiting to come back and bother me some more. I'll 
check again at work (at home now).
02/26/2008    17:40:51 PM    from David OS to All Participants:
" They no longer have the gradient (which was kind of artistic but made 
it harder to read the text on them)." As It seems I'm now actually  
reading them, seems your change worked as intended.
02/26/2008    17:40:52 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
The thing that bothered me about my fix was that one of the changes I 
made was to restore a commented-out line of code (and comment out the 
line that had replaced it).
02/26/2008    17:41:15 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Hey, I just noticed Jen isn't here.  Is she away?
02/26/2008    17:41:44 PM    from midori to All Participants:
Oh, yes, sorry, meant to say she's at a workshop in Ghent most of this 
week.
02/26/2008    17:41:55 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Ah.
02/26/2008    17:42:18 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Anyway, midori, that's fabulous that your global filters bug went into 
spontaneous remission!  Can I close that bug report?
02/26/2008    17:42:40 PM    from midori to All Participants:
I think so ... if I see it again I'll report it again.
02/26/2008    17:42:54 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Great.
02/26/2008    17:42:59 PM    from midori to All Participants:
Unfortunately, my "overzealous delete" bug is still raging.
02/26/2008    17:43:08 PM    from midori to All Participants:
(those are the only two I've investigated so far)
02/26/2008    17:43:15 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Right, I need to take a look at that now that I understand what you 
mean.
02/26/2008    17:43:32 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
I had thought "delete" meant "delete this node", whereas in fact it 
means "delete this relationship"--right?
02/26/2008    17:43:37 PM    from midori to All Participants:
yes
02/26/2008    17:43:55 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
That was totally unclear to me, so it seemed like it was doing the right 
thing.
02/26/2008    17:44:04 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
I will look into that bug today.
02/26/2008    17:44:29 PM    from midori to All Participants:
It helps to compare 'n' contrast 1.101 with the bug-afflicted 2.0 betas; 
1.101 has got it right
02/26/2008    17:45:19 PM    from midori to All Participants:
... "delete" becomes equivalent to "delete this node (and mark it 
obsolete)" if the node has only one parent.
02/26/2008    17:45:29 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
I got kicked off.
02/26/2008    17:45:45 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
The last thing I saw was midori's suggestion to compare the delete 
behavior with 1.101, where it works.
02/26/2008    17:45:49 PM    from midori to All Participants:
I have the transcript so far.
02/26/2008    17:46:02 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Good.  Can you save it now in case you get booted?
02/26/2008    17:46:25 PM    from midori to All Participants:
The only other thing I said was a bit more explanation of "delete", so 
not urgent righ tnow.
02/26/2008    17:46:51 PM    from midori to All Participants:
saving early, saving often!
02/26/2008    17:46:53 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
It's always useful to be able to compare behavior with a version where 
it works.  However, as far as the actual code, it's more helpful if the 
working version is also OE2.  The codebase of OE1 is very different, so 
it's not easy to compare the code.
02/26/2008    17:47:21 PM    from midori to All Participants:
Yeah, 1.101 is good for seeing what it's supposed to do from our POV ...
02/26/2008    17:47:36 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Right.  Which is much better than nothing!
02/26/2008    17:48:05 PM    from midori to All Participants:
I think I found some 2.0 betas without the bug (but with other bugs, in 
some cases). I'll check email and the SF item.
02/26/2008    17:48:31 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Most of the earlier 2.0 betas that I've tried have been so broken in 
other ways that it's hard to check for the new bug.
02/26/2008    17:48:51 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
But if you do find a beta where it worked, that would be very useful 
info.
02/26/2008    17:49:07 PM    from midori to All Participants:
I did make a note in the bug report -- 
02/26/2008    17:49:15 PM    from midori to All Participants:
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?funcdetail&aid1897099&grou
p_id36855&atid418257
02/26/2008    17:49:33 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Oh, right, you did.  Thanks!
02/26/2008    17:49:59 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
I had tried b23, but since I was still unclear on how it was supposed to 
work, I didn't determine anything.
02/26/2008    17:50:01 PM    from midori to All Participants:
beta22 isn't tooooooo different from the recent ones
02/26/2008    17:50:08 PM    from midori to All Participants:
and delete was OK
02/26/2008    17:50:16 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
(I mean b22, not b23.)
02/26/2008    17:50:50 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
So, yesterday I sent out a message asking for community approval of the 
proposed component name changes (e.g. Graph DAG View -> Ancestor Graph 
Viewer)
02/26/2008    17:51:15 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Any comments on those?
02/26/2008    17:51:26 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Here's the list:
02/26/2008    17:51:27 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
1. Ontology Editor Panel -> Ontology Tree Editor
2. Graph DAG View -> 
Ancestor Graph Viewer
3. Graph Editor -> (unchanged)
4. DAG Viewer 
-> Ancestor (?) Tree Viewer
5. Graphviz Viewer -> (unchanged)
02/26/2008    17:51:29 PM    from David OS to All Participants:
Your suggested names look good to me. v.clear. Sorry for now replying 
yet.
02/26/2008    17:51:35 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
	They sound good to me too.

02/26/2008    17:51:38 PM    from midori to All Participants:
I'm not one of the ones who cares that much ... I've been using OE so 
long, I've gotten used to the names.
02/26/2008    17:51:46 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
	snap!

02/26/2008    17:51:49 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	Good for 
me too.

02/26/2008    17:51:52 PM    from Wasila to All Participants:
I like them too
02/26/2008    17:51:58 PM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
good to me too, I think they make more sense
02/26/2008    17:52:04 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
midori, one of my goals is not to annoy/confuse the long-time users.
02/26/2008    17:52:09 PM    from David OS to All Participants:
The addition of "ancestor' to both those names helps.
02/26/2008    17:52:27 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Good--I was looking for something a bit simpler than "Path-to-root".
02/26/2008    17:52:58 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
I will change those names in the interface and the user docs.
02/26/2008    17:53:18 PM    from midori to All Participants:
I don't mind the new names, tho it'll probably take me a while to get 
used to them. But see above re: I'm not bothered one way or another.
02/26/2008    17:53:21 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
I'm less certain whether it's a good idea to change the class names, 
since there could be other applications using those classes.
02/26/2008    17:53:32 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
(The class names are visible to programmers, not to users.)
02/26/2008    17:53:41 PM    from midori to All Participants:
Not one I can help with!
02/26/2008    17:53:58 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
I can check that with oboedit-dev
02/26/2008    17:54:16 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
although one of the important developers, Chris Mungall, is out of town 
for the next few days
02/26/2008    17:54:32 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
and then I'm out of town this Thurs-Fri (for my annual family snow trip! 
 wooo!)

=== at this point, Midori's Webex crashed, so there's probably a bit missing ===

02/26/2008    17:57:37 PM    from David OS to All Participants:

So... 'fraid I have to go.  Gig to get to in London.  Nomi:thanks for 
fixing the auto-complete term selection bug.  See you next week, David
02/26/2008    17:57:39 PM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:

it's pretty minor, but it's cool that the warnings are now meaningful, 
before they were just annoying because there wasn't much signal in all 
the noise of words just not in the dictionary
02/26/2008    17:57:51 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:

Bye, David.
02/26/2008    17:58:09 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:

Glad you appreciated that fix.  It wasn't as hard as the verification 
window one, but it was still tricky.
02/26/2008    17:58:41 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:

We can all thank midori for making the dictionary more comprehensive.
02/26/2008    17:58:51 PM    from midori to All Participants:

hmph. lasted a while bug got booted anyway
02/26/2008    17:59:14 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	(I can 
see 2 midori now)

02/26/2008    17:59:18 PM    from midori to All Participants:

Have transcript through Nomi's snow trip ...
02/26/2008    17:59:18 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:

The first half dozen OEWG chats, I never got booted.  The last few, I 
get booted at least once each time.
02/26/2008    17:59:31 PM    from midori to All Participants:

(one of me should be plenty ...)
02/26/2008    17:59:44 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	one of 
you is gone now

02/26/2008    17:59:46 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:

Did you get back in time to hear me thank you for extending the 
dictionary?
02/26/2008    17:59:56 PM    from midori to All Participants:

yes, thanks for thanking me ;)
02/26/2008    18:00:11 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:

Are you on leopard?  I'm wondering whether leopard users get booted more 
often.
02/26/2008    18:00:27 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:

I can't remember exactly when I upgraded, but it seemed like when I was 
on tiger, I didn't get booted as much.
02/26/2008    18:00:30 PM    from midori to All Participants:

nope, tiger both at home and at work
02/26/2008    18:00:37 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:

Hmm.  I guess it's not that, then.
02/26/2008    18:00:58 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:

Hey, at least WebEx runs on Mac.  Last week, I had to participate in a 
web meeting that used a Windows-only application!
02/26/2008    18:01:04 PM    from midori to All Participants:

I also had a nice stretch of not getting chucked, and it's worsened 
again in the last few weeks or maybe months.
02/26/2008    18:01:05 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:

That was fun!  Not!
02/26/2008    18:01:18 PM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:

and I just got chucked too :(
02/26/2008    18:01:24 PM    from midori to All Participants:

Not that I'm eager, but it might be time to bother webex tech support 
again.
02/26/2008    18:01:33 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	I am at 
home and I have never been kicked off

02/26/2008    18:01:37 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:

	(time for me to run, sorry)

02/26/2008    18:01:41 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:

Bye, Tanya.
02/26/2008    18:01:44 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	Bye

02/26/2008    18:01:53 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:

Speaking of which, next Tues I have to leave at 10:10 for an 
appointment.
02/26/2008    18:02:05 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:

Shall we have a quick meeting at 9:30 like usual?
02/26/2008    18:02:14 PM    from midori to All Participants:

When I asked them about getting booted before, they were friendly and 
well-intentioned, but ended up not finding much.
02/26/2008    18:02:26 PM    from midori to All Participants:

Meeting next week - fine with me.
02/26/2008    18:02:42 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:

I suspect if we ask them again we will have similar results, midori, but 
anyone who wants to bug them can feel free!
02/26/2008    18:03:06 PM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:

Meeting next week - fine with me too
02/26/2008    18:03:12 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:

Do we have any other topics to discuss today?
02/26/2008    18:03:41 PM    from midori to All Participants:

not me
02/26/2008    18:04:12 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:

See you all next week, then.
02/26/2008    18:04:25 PM    from midori to All Participants:

I'll send the transcript parts I have.
02/26/2008    18:04:27 PM    from Wasila to All Participants:

ok - see you then
02/26/2008    18:04:30 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:

Thanks.
02/26/2008    18:04:32 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:

I have the second half.
02/26/2008    18:04:36 PM    from midori to All Participants:

bye!
02/26/2008    18:04:36 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	ok, see 
you next week

02/26/2008    18:04:37 PM    from Nomi Harris to All Participants:

Bye, all!
02/26/2008    18:04:38 PM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:

bye
02/26/2008    18:04:40 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
	Bye