OE Webex 7Oct08
10/07/2008 09:28:10 AM from Jen Deegan: Hi
10/07/2008 09:28:14 AM from Amina Abdulla: Hi Jen
10/07/2008 09:28:25 AM from Jen Deegan: Hi Amina,how's it going?
10/07/2008 09:28:25 AM from Karen: Hi Jen
10/07/2008 09:28:29 AM from Jen Deegan: Hi Karen.
10/07/2008 09:28:50 AM from Amina Abdulla: going alright Jen - 2 weeks to GO: )
10/07/2008 09:28:55 AM from Jen Deegan: :-)
10/07/2008 09:29:22 AM from Jen Deegan: We had a developer breakthrough today. We figured out that the settings class for OBO-Edit components is a JavaBean.
10/07/2008 09:29:55 AM from Jen Deegan: That will save all sorts of trouble for future config stuff.
10/07/2008 09:29:55 AM from Amina Abdulla: what were you trying to do Jen
10/07/2008 09:30:20 AM from Jen Deegan: I'm working on making the Tree Viewer have its config setting accessed via the wrench icon rather than the big options button.
10/07/2008 09:30:35 AM from Jen Deegan: It's nearly done but there are a coupld of bugs left.
10/07/2008 09:31:20 AM from Jen Deegan: Hi Melissa
10/07/2008 09:32:11 AM from Amina Abdulla: Jen - the TreeViewer would be a good meeting demo once your done
10/07/2008 09:32:11 AM from midori: Hi all
10/07/2008 09:32:17 AM from Amina Abdulla: Hi Midori
10/07/2008 09:32:19 AM from Jen Deegan: Hi Midori
10/07/2008 09:32:35 AM from Jen Deegan: Good idea to demo. I'll do that.
10/07/2008 09:32:36 AM from midori: took me a while to connect (I think 'cos my cvs commit is still running)
10/07/2008 09:33:36 AM from Nomi Harris: I had trouble connecting to WebEx this morning, too. It just hung there for a while and I had to try again.
10/07/2008 09:34:19 AM from Amina Abdulla: That reminds me - svn is undergoing some sort of refactoring and has been really weird lately
10/07/2008 09:34:41 AM from Amina Abdulla: The bug and feature tracker update emails haven't gone through last few days
10/07/2008 09:34:51 AM from Amina Abdulla: I don't see my undate emails atleast
10/07/2008 09:34:56 AM from midori: I haven't done anything with SF svn for a while ... not since before their big move.
10/07/2008 09:35:03 AM from Amina Abdulla: Saw some updates Nomi made yest
10/07/2008 09:35:18 AM from Nomi Harris: You mean to some of the tracker items?
10/07/2008 09:35:28 AM from Amina Abdulla: yeah the tracker emails
10/07/2008 09:35:37 AM from Amina Abdulla: Just wanted to let the editors know
10/07/2008 09:35:55 AM from Nomi Harris: I don't think I've been getting email about tracker updates lately, though I have gotten the "here are the new items today" messages.
10/07/2008 09:36:10 AM from Amina Abdulla: Jen I added comments to some of your requests - I can send that to you on skype after the meeting
10/07/2008 09:36:18 AM from Amina Abdulla: Hi Tanya and Chris
10/07/2008 09:36:18 AM from midori: You're not the only one -- SF had a problem with their mailing lists, and I'm still hearing about people missing tracker mails for items they're monitoring.
10/07/2008 09:36:24 AM from Jen Deegan: Thanks for that.
10/07/2008 09:36:27 AM from Amina Abdulla: should we start - looks like everyone is here
10/07/2008 09:36:44 AM from Chris Mungall: odd, I still get emails from sf on tracker items I'm monitoring
10/07/2008 09:36:59 AM from midori: Those "here are today's items" mails aren't from SourceForge; they're from me, via the awesome power of perl script + cron.
10/07/2008 09:37:22 AM from midori: I don't think everything's going astray, just the odd one here & there.
10/07/2008 09:37:32 AM from Tanya: We've had that happen too.
10/07/2008 09:37:39 AM from Tanya: CLosed items that didn't really close.
10/07/2008 09:37:45 AM from Tanya: comments added that were lost.
10/07/2008 09:38:03 AM from Tanya: SF Twilight Zone
10/07/2008 09:38:06 AM from Amina Abdulla: So I fixed the multiple xps save bug in the Text Editor - works with manual and auto commit
10/07/2008 09:38:49 AM from Amina Abdulla: The "pending edits" pop up is still a issue though as I haven't been able to replicate the bug
10/07/2008 09:39:32 AM from Chris Mungall: We have the option of moving everything en masse from sf to googlecode. But that may be exchanging one set of problems for another..
10/07/2008 09:39:44 AM from Amina Abdulla: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2142711&group_id=36855&atid=418257
10/07/2008 09:39:56 AM from midori: I've just removed my edit.idw file, because Nomi said that helped ... haven't had much chance to see whether it works for me yet.
10/07/2008 09:39:59 AM from Nomi Harris: Did you try my "bad" edit.idw?
10/07/2008 09:40:09 AM from Amina Abdulla: I vote for switching to google code
10/07/2008 09:40:29 AM from Nomi Harris: I vote for staying with SF for now.
10/07/2008 09:40:34 AM from midori: No ... I was getting the nag message anyway, and didn't think of it.
10/07/2008 09:40:55 AM from Nomi Harris: Actually, I meant did Amina try my bad edit.idw, since she wasn't seeing the problem.
10/07/2008 09:40:55 AM from midori: I don't really know googlecode ...
10/07/2008 09:41:04 AM from Nomi Harris: It sounds like you have your own bad edit.idw, midori.
10/07/2008 09:41:15 AM from melissaH: I think for joe user, its nice to have all the obo-related trackers in the same place
10/07/2008 09:41:32 AM from Amina Abdulla: ok - I'm going to leave this for now - if we see more of the pending edits come up when nothing has changed I'll look into it
10/07/2008 09:41:33 AM from Nomi Harris: I still find it very mysterious that edit.idw would affect saving of changes. It should just affect the layout of components.
10/07/2008 09:42:12 AM from midori: I shouldn't have a bad edit.idw any more, but I just chucked it and haven't retested. Hang on, I'll check now.
10/07/2008 09:42:50 AM from Amina Abdulla: So about the email Chris sent out yesterday regarding the built-in relations - does everyone agree
10/07/2008 09:43:37 AM from midori: I never actually use the list of relations in the OTE, so no objection to changing that.
10/07/2008 09:43:52 AM from Tanya: I've learned to ignore those too: )
10/07/2008 09:44:00 AM from Jen Deegan: sounds fine. I use union_of but I can always add it in the file.
10/07/2008 09:44:10 AM from melissaH: yeah, the only reason I look at them is to check the user-defined ones
10/07/2008 09:44:20 AM from Nomi Harris: Did you see my suggestion that the label "Relations" be changed (to "User-defined relations" or something like that)?
10/07/2008 09:44:21 AM from midori: I like Nomi's suggestion to relabel it "user-defined relations"
10/07/2008 09:44:25 AM from midori: snap!
10/07/2008 09:44:30 AM from melissaH: yep- great!
10/07/2008 09:44:42 AM from Amina Abdulla: The cross-products tab in the TextEditor also should not be displaying the built-ins for the Discriminating relations - I'll fix that too
10/07/2008 09:44:46 AM from Chris Mungall: Jen - you can still use union_of, it just wouldn't be listed in the OTE display
10/07/2008 09:45:13 AM from Jen Deegan: Yes that's fine
10/07/2008 09:45:13 AM from Chris Mungall: My only caveat about "user-defined relations" is that it is kind of long for the OTE display
10/07/2008 09:45:28 AM from midori: not in my OTEs!
10/07/2008 09:45:31 AM from Nomi Harris: It's not long compared to many of the terms that will appear in the OTE.
10/07/2008 09:45:45 AM from Chris Mungall: OK
10/07/2008 09:45:50 AM from midori: (seriously, it's still much shorter than a lot of term snames)
10/07/2008 09:47:04 AM from Chris Mungall: Yep. I guess it was more an easthetic length thing.. it's the top level grouping so it should be something basic and hence non-wordy... but this is just me fussing
10/07/2008 09:47:26 AM from Chris Mungall: Also, "defined" is pushing it, since many of these are undefined
10/07/2008 09:47:35 AM from Chris Mungall: in the proper sense of defined
10/07/2008 09:47:53 AM from midori: user-specified, then ?
10/07/2008 09:47:56 AM from Chris Mungall: sure
10/07/2008 09:47:58 AM from Tanya: " User-created relations'?
10/07/2008 09:48:02 AM from Tanya: (typed too slow)
10/07/2008 09:49:18 AM from Chris Mungall: like that too
10/07/2008 09:49:34 AM from Amina Abdulla: Alright - moving on to the GO meeting - I suggested having some time for the OEWG one of the days
10/07/2008 09:49:53 AM from midori: makes sense
10/07/2008 09:50:23 AM from Amina Abdulla: Suzi has that on the agenda - we couldn't decide a time though - whenever the different groups branch out I guess
10/07/2008 09:50:52 AM from Tanya: Do you know when a final agenda might gel? Something with times?
10/07/2008 09:51:06 AM from Tanya: It looks like there's a TON to discuss.
10/07/2008 09:51:22 AM from midori: It's in the PIs' hands ... and yes, I agree, tons
10/07/2008 09:51:24 AM from Nomi Harris: For the OEWG? Or for the whole GO meeting?
10/07/2008 09:51:35 AM from Amina Abdulla: Yeah I'm hoping by next week Tanya
10/07/2008 09:51:37 AM from Tanya: The whole thing.
10/07/2008 09:51:57 AM from Jen Deegan: I think the PIs are planning to get it finalized before the meeting this time.
10/07/2008 09:52:08 AM from Jen Deegan: because we got in a muddle last time
10/07/2008 09:52:08 AM from Amina Abdulla: I'll be working on a video to demo OE for the Ontology Content Development section
10/07/2008 09:52:16 AM from Tanya: That would be excellent.
10/07/2008 09:52:19 AM from Amina Abdulla: Any suggestions for that demo would be appreciated
10/07/2008 09:52:34 AM from Jen Deegan: we can do live demos rather than video maybe?
10/07/2008 09:52:37 AM from Jen Deegan: we often do
10/07/2008 09:53:04 AM from Amina Abdulla: Well it would be easier to explain some of the complex tasks with a video
10/07/2008 09:53:05 AM from Jen Deegan: I think the new layout would be great to demo
10/07/2008 09:53:08 AM from midori: yes, that would allow you to repeat things or go into more depth if there are questions.
10/07/2008 09:53:37 AM from midori: Jen - you mean the docking framework? I thought that had been shown before ...
10/07/2008 09:53:38 AM from Nomi Harris: what new layout?
10/07/2008 09:53:49 AM from Amina Abdulla: ok yeah - thats a great point - video sort of inhibits that
10/07/2008 09:53:57 AM from Jen Deegan: yes it has I suppose. I was just thinking that it's new for this release.
10/07/2008 09:54:02 AM from Jen Deegan: they have seen it before though.
10/07/2008 09:54:09 AM from Jen Deegan: might be good to demo the compound search
10/07/2008 09:54:17 AM from Jen Deegan: it is very different from 1.101
10/07/2008 09:54:39 AM from Karen: different, but way easier: )
10/07/2008 09:54:43 AM from Jen Deegan: yes
10/07/2008 09:55:05 AM from Jen Deegan: are we just talking about new features since last meeting?
10/07/2008 09:55:16 AM from Jen Deegan: it's hardder to think of that than new features since 1.101
10/07/2008 09:55:20 AM from Amina Abdulla: I was a little concerned about OE freezing while dealing with large ontologies thats why I suggested the video
10/07/2008 09:55:37 AM from midori: You could use SO instead of GO to demo ...
10/07/2008 09:55:39 AM from Nomi Harris: Has it been freezing on your lately?
10/07/2008 09:55:41 AM from Jen Deegan: it should be fine
10/07/2008 09:55:47 AM from Nomi Harris: (you, I mean, not your)
10/07/2008 09:55:54 AM from midori: It's been much better for me since b49
10/07/2008 09:56:01 AM from Jen Deegan: it never freezes on me. Is it bug reasoner stuff you are doing?
10/07/2008 09:56:11 AM from Jen Deegan: big I mean
10/07/2008 09:56:49 AM from Amina Abdulla: Yeah - I was watching chris work on this xp ontology yest and there a notic able lag ipdating the OTE eveytime
10/07/2008 09:57:08 AM from Amina Abdulla: updating*
10/07/2008 09:57:12 AM from Jen Deegan: If you want me to drive while you stand up and talk then I would be happy to do that.
10/07/2008 09:57:31 AM from midori: The reasoner does slow it down quite a bit ... (OE1 is at least as bad)
10/07/2008 09:57:49 AM from Jen Deegan: yes I am almost always working without the reasoner.
10/07/2008 09:57:55 AM from midori: same here
10/07/2008 09:58:36 AM from Amina Abdulla: Well Chris wrote a new Rule based Reasoner
10/07/2008 09:59:17 AM from Amina Abdulla: That will be mentioned in the demo too
10/07/2008 09:59:25 AM from Jen Deegan: great
10/07/2008 09:59:49 AM from Jen Deegan: I would be interested to hear more about the reasoner.
10/07/2008 09:59:49 AM from Amina Abdulla: Will anyone else be using OE for demos in other sections?
10/07/2008 10:00:05 AM from Jen Deegan: yes, quite possibly, but only off the cuff.
10/07/2008 10:00:08 AM from Jen Deegan: for me anyway
10/07/2008 10:00:26 AM from midori: probably not live, but there will be lots of screenshots
10/07/2008 10:00:55 AM from Amina Abdulla: ok - was that the reason why you posted the increasing font size bug for the search editor Jen
10/07/2008 10:01:29 AM from Jen Deegan: I really very often do things on screen for groups, so I thought I'd better mentiont hat bug before it was needed.
10/07/2008 10:01:41 AM from Amina Abdulla: That worked really well on my mac increasing font size up to 20
10/07/2008 10:01:50 AM from Amina Abdulla: ok
10/07/2008 10:01:54 AM from Jen Deegan: yes it's good isn't it?
10/07/2008 10:02:29 AM from Amina Abdulla: Yeah - the search results table needs to be fixed to adjust according to content though
10/07/2008 10:02:41 AM from Jen Deegan: Yes that would be great, thanks.
10/07/2008 10:03:32 AM from Amina Abdulla: Midori - would you like to give us the parent editor demo now
10/07/2008 10:03:51 AM from midori: OK
10/07/2008 10:04:41 AM from midori: Because I can't do both chat and demo, first I'll plug some comments in here so you'll have some idea what you're watching ...
10/07/2008 10:04:52 AM from midori: First I'll just show what the Parent Editor displays. Things to note:
10/07/2008 10:04:59 AM from midori: - there's a pulldown menu of relationship types
10/07/2008 10:05:15 AM from midori: - the trash can icon deletes a relationship; it's greyed out if a term only has one parent (use the OTE to make terms obsolete)
10/07/2008 10:05:24 AM from midori: - if you click on the button with the parent name and ID, it selects the parent term.
10/07/2008 10:05:56 AM from midori: Then I'll create a new term, and use the Parent Editor to add a second parent. I'll do one that just adds a parent, and then another one where I change a relationship type.
10/07/2008 10:06:07 AM from midori: Then I'll clone an existing term, and adjust its parentage (both adding and deleting parents).
10/07/2008 10:06:30 AM from midori: I'll also show the namespace pulldown and the range button, but I won't do much with either because we don't use them in GO at present.
10/07/2008 10:06:36 AM from midori: OK, here I go ...
10/07/2008 10:15:44 AM from Jen Deegan: I have a feature request idea for OBO-Edit 3. There could be a 'new parent' button in the parent editor, that makes a text box. Then you type some part of the name of the term you want and it autocompletes to the full name. The you commit.
10/07/2008 10:16:16 AM from melissaH: ooh, I like it
10/07/2008 10:16:35 AM from Jen Deegan: I can see why Midori likes this tool.:-)
10/07/2008 10:17:13 AM from melissaH: I too use it a lot
10/07/2008 10:17:29 AM from midori: OK ... did that work?
10/07/2008 10:17:35 AM from Jen Deegan: yes, great
10/07/2008 10:17:38 AM from Jen Deegan: thanks.
10/07/2008 10:17:45 AM from midori: yay .... and whew!
10/07/2008 10:17:46 AM from Amina Abdulla: Yeah thanks midori
10/07/2008 10:17:50 AM from Nomi Harris: It does seem very useful.
10/07/2008 10:18:05 AM from midori: I was wishing we were on Skype so I could narrate. Glad it worked anyway.
10/07/2008 10:18:17 AM from Amina Abdulla: that would've helped
10/07/2008 10:18:18 AM from midori: I am a Parent Editor Fan Club founding member ;)
10/07/2008 10:18:22 AM from Jen Deegan: I can see that it must save a lot of searching around, especially when you want to delete relationships.
10/07/2008 10:18:32 AM from Karen: Your pre-explanation helped a lot to know what I was seeing.
10/07/2008 10:18:41 AM from midori: That's exactly what made me try it out in the first place.
10/07/2008 10:18:49 AM from Jen Deegan: What do you think of my feature request idea Midori?
10/07/2008 10:18:52 AM from Tanya: pretty cool
10/07/2008 10:19:32 AM from midori: Re feature: I wouldn't delay OE2.0 release fo rit, but it would be most cool for, say 2.1.
10/07/2008 10:19:51 AM from Jen Deegan: great, I'll request that for the next release then.
10/07/2008 10:20:50 AM from midori: If we have to wait for OE3, I'll get by. Let's get OE2.0 out, and then do feature priorities ofr 2.1 vs. 3.0
10/07/2008 10:20:56 AM from midori: (sorry for typos ...)
10/07/2008 10:21:05 AM from Jen Deegan: good plan
10/07/2008 10:21:53 AM from Amina Abdulla: Any other items for today?
10/07/2008 10:22:00 AM from Chris Mungall: note that 'show implied links' appears to be broken when the reasoner is on
10/07/2008 10:22:15 AM from Jen Deegan: None from me.
10/07/2008 10:22:16 AM from Chris Mungall: (in the parent editor)
10/07/2008 10:22:33 AM from Nomi Harris: I have to go now.
10/07/2008 10:22:38 AM from Jen Deegan: Bye Nomi.
10/07/2008 10:22:39 AM from Nomi Harris: Bye!
10/07/2008 10:22:43 AM from midori: bye nomi
10/07/2008 10:23:00 AM from Amina Abdulla: I'll look into that
10/07/2008 10:23:02 AM from midori: Chris - is that one of the things we put in the tracker after you visited us?
10/07/2008 10:23:14 AM from Jen Deegan: no I didn't do it
10/07/2008 10:23:23 AM from Jen Deegan: I mean it wasn't one that was in the minutes
10/07/2008 10:23:49 AM from midori: OK, I must be thinking of something else -- there were a couple of parent editor items. Neve rmind ...
10/07/2008 10:24:03 AM from Chris Mungall: yes, I didn't notice until now
10/07/2008 10:24:07 AM from Jen Deegan: There were oddles
10/07/2008 10:24:20 AM from Jen Deegan: oodles I mean
10/07/2008 10:24:25 AM from midori: I like oddles ...
10/07/2008 10:24:32 AM from Jen Deegan: me too: -)
10/07/2008 10:24:33 AM from midori: seems fitting somehow
10/07/2008 10:24:41 AM from Jen Deegan: sounds like a way to cook eggs
10/07/2008 10:24:47 AM from Amina Abdulla: oodles that were odd
10/07/2008 10:24:53 AM from Jen Deegan: :-)
10/07/2008 10:25:10 AM from Amina Abdulla: Alright everyone - thanks for coming
10/07/2008 10:25:21 AM from Amina Abdulla: should we end the meeting?
10/07/2008 10:25:24 AM from Jen Deegan: Thanks for the meeting Amina.
10/07/2008 10:25:31 AM from midori: Next time I see any of you will be in Montreal ...
10/07/2008 10:25:43 AM from Jen Deegan: Can you email me the SF links? I have to go and do something about food for the masses.
10/07/2008 10:25:55 AM from Amina Abdulla: Sure Jen
10/07/2008 10:25:57 AM from Jen Deegan: See you then Midori.
10/07/2008 10:26:00 AM from Jen Deegan: thanks Amina.
10/07/2008 10:26:01 AM from Amina Abdulla: Midori - your not here next week?
10/07/2008 10:26:05 AM from melissaH: bye everyone
10/07/2008 10:26:21 AM from Amina Abdulla: bye Melissa
10/07/2008 10:26:27 AM from midori: correct -- I'm off tomorrow on a crazy trip that includes the GO meeting.
10/07/2008 10:26:40 AM from Amina Abdulla: sounds like fun
10/07/2008 10:26:41 AM from Tanya: bye!
10/07/2008 10:26:43 AM from Karen: bye
10/07/2008 10:26:47 AM from Jen Deegan: bye
10/07/2008 10:26:50 AM from midori: bye
10/07/2008 10:27:02 AM from Amina Abdulla: bye everyone