OE Webex 9Aug07

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08/09/2007    09:34:17 AM    from Harold to All Attendees:
	I just dl'd beta 11;  it now searches synonyms ok
08/09/2007    09:35:12 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	I played a bit with beta11 too -- a bunch of bug reports, but none of 'em about searching
08/09/2007    09:35:56 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Hi, everybody.
08/09/2007    09:36:00 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	hi
08/09/2007    09:36:28 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I think we're going to have problems with demoing today... My windows emulator doesn't want to play nicely with the network. I'll try to work on this problem as the meeting continues...
08/09/2007    09:36:29 AM    from Alexander Diehl to All Attendees:
	hi
08/09/2007    09:37:34 AM    from Alexander Diehl to All Attendees:
	Has the OBO-Edit Menu bar changed - using a bigger font now?
08/09/2007    09:37:53 AM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	(RE: switch to all participants so john can read what we write)

08/09/2007    09:38:01 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	I noticed that it's using the font I chose for terms etc.
08/09/2007    09:38:18 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	That's good. That's what it should be doing.
08/09/2007    09:38:19 AM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	(repeating) Has the OBO-Edit Menu bar changed - using a bigger font now?
08/09/2007    09:38:46 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Alex: in this version I've changed the way fonts are applied.
08/09/2007    09:38:55 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Now they aren't applied to menus or popup menus.
08/09/2007    09:39:00 AM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	It looks better.
08/09/2007    09:39:13 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I'm trying to get OBO-Edit to fit a little better with the native look and feel of our various platforms.
08/09/2007    09:39:15 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Especially Mac OS.
08/09/2007    09:39:18 AM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	Easier on my old eyes.
08/09/2007    09:40:32 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Did I miss anything else before people switched to All Participants?
08/09/2007    09:40:49 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	nope
08/09/2007    09:41:25 AM    from Harold to All Attendees:
	just noticed that my dbxrefs are gone, and I don't see a button to import them in
08/09/2007    09:41:46 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	I have the import button in the dbxref library ...
08/09/2007    09:41:56 AM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	john, I have b11 loaded with an ontology and now I can't get it to load another or save. bug or would it be hiding somewhere?

08/09/2007    09:41:56 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	... and it worked nicely for me.
08/09/2007    09:42:20 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Melissa, I don't know what you mean.
08/09/2007    09:42:29 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	(importing dbxrefs worked, that is)
08/09/2007    09:42:31 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	If you're clicking "Load" and "Save" and it isn't working, that's a bug.
08/09/2007    09:42:38 AM    from Harold to All Attendees:
	ah.. it's back; had to change font size
08/09/2007    09:42:52 AM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	any one else unable to get a menu when you click load or save?

08/09/2007    09:43:39 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	got the menu, got the load dialog ... but I've only just started it up again.
08/09/2007    09:44:12 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	(Chances are this is a memory problem or the window you want somehow made its way to the back or was hidden)
08/09/2007    09:44:16 AM    from Harold to All Attendees:
	load works, but no save
08/09/2007    09:44:49 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	I've got load and save, all good. Several tries now ....
08/09/2007    09:44:52 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	(If the window is hidden, though, you won't be able to click *anything* in the program, it'll just beep)
08/09/2007    09:45:00 AM    from Harold to All Attendees:
	nothing in back, and appears now frozen
08/09/2007    09:45:58 AM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	Im not frozen, but nothing in back and no save/load menu appears.

08/09/2007    09:46:25 AM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	Load and save windows are appearing normally for me.
08/09/2007    09:46:31 AM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	when I go to the file menu, save as is already highlighted

08/09/2007    09:46:46 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	!
08/09/2007    09:47:11 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	You have a serious, unrecoverable problem, Melissa. Send me your log files and restart.
08/09/2007    09:47:29 AM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	(don't mean to hold up the meeting, its just a bit of a showstopper). ok john. will do.

08/09/2007    09:47:57 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Midori, do you want to tell people about your screen recording application? I found it very useful...
08/09/2007    09:49:20 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	Great! I stumbled on it through the awesome power of Google ... it's a Mac app that captures movies of what's happening on one's
screen while one works.
08/09/2007    09:50:27 AM    from Harold to All Attendees:
	I used a smaller ontology (cell) and it eventually brought up the save menu; its the slow verification process
08/09/2007    09:50:39 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	I did a movie of a verification quick-fix bug using the free demo -- to see the movie, follow the instructions in SF 1770811 ...
08/09/2007    09:50:53 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1770811&group_id=36855&atid=418257
08/09/2007    09:51:24 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	The app is called iShowU, from shinywhitebox.com
08/09/2007    09:52:18 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	... and the demo does everything; it just also adds big cheesy "this is a demo version" messages on top, but paying up to make them go away is cheap enough -- $20.
08/09/2007    09:52:31 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	I had fun playing with it ...
08/09/2007    09:53:05 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	Is there anything specific we're supposed to talk about today?
08/09/2007    09:53:26 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Just a few things:

08/09/2007    09:53:40 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	I've been testing (at last) ... and there's also feature selection ... plus whatever John's about to say,.
08/09/2007    09:53:49 AM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	a snap to use!
08/09/2007    09:54:44 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	First, I wanted to ask how many working group members have multi-processor (or multi-core) computers. There are some things in OBO-Edit that could be greatly sped up by multiple processors.

08/09/2007    09:55:02 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	But I want to know if it's worth the effort right now.

08/09/2007    09:55:03 AM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	I have one.
08/09/2007    09:55:05 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	I think my  system is dual processor
08/09/2007    09:55:25 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	my work machine has dual processors; home's just got one
08/09/2007    09:56:00 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	If we're trying to keep this program as general use though, we might not want to count on people having dual processor  machines, mine at home is single as well.
08/09/2007    09:56:06 AM    from Harold to All Attendees:
	my machine is a dual 2 ghz powerrpc gs
08/09/2007    09:56:07 AM    from Jane Lomax to All Participants:
	I have one
08/09/2007    09:56:23 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	I *think* Jen and Amelia have dual-processor desktops at work, but Jen also does a lot of editing on a Windows/Linux laptop that's probably single processor.
08/09/2007    09:56:29 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Well, if I write things to take advantage of multiple processors, it'll still work fine on single processor machines. But the code will be more complicated.

08/09/2007    09:56:56 AM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	It is the wave of the future for sure.
08/09/2007    09:57:17 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	I'm sure the working group people who use it a lot will appreciate more speed, and I don't object if it isn't going to mess it up for single processor users.
08/09/2007    09:57:17 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I may send out a test application in a week or two to check whether multi-threaded code really runs better on each of our machines (just because you have 2 processors doesn't mean Java is smart enough to use them)


08/09/2007    09:57:55 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	happy to try it ...
08/09/2007    09:58:17 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Next thing: I wanted to bring people up to speed about some things we discussed last week.

08/09/2007    09:58:49 AM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	(I don't have dual processor)

08/09/2007    09:58:52 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	First, we decided that working group meetings should return to the regular every-two-weeks schedule, but the off weeks would become another office hours session.

08/09/2007    10:00:25 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I suggested that I'd like OBO-Edit 2.0 to have an official release by the end of September, and everyone agreed that we probably wouldn't be able to make that deadline, so...

08/09/2007    10:01:29 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	We discussed the possibility that the graph editor (and graph dag viewer) remain beta components within the official release. I could even make them into an external plugin, if we weren't comfortable having beta code within an offical release.

08/09/2007    10:01:58 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Without the burden of debugging those two mammoth components, we have a much better chance of keeping to a schedule.

08/09/2007    10:02:08 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	Based on Mike Cherry's comments, I think we cannot have beta components in an official release.
08/09/2007    10:02:22 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I'll drop 'em into a plugin then, and no one's the wiser.

08/09/2007    10:02:26 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	Is keeping to that schedule so important?
08/09/2007    10:02:57 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	It's not terribly important, but since we can't edit the GO with beta software, I don't like having long, long turnaround times on official releases.

08/09/2007    10:03:11 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	It seems that this is a really major shift in the way the program works, maybe it would be better to wait till it's ready for prime-time. We have a very nice working piece of software now.
08/09/2007    10:03:28 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	We also discussed how I have to leave early this week, i.e. approximately now.
08/09/2007    10:03:37 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Curses

08/09/2007    10:03:43 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Do you have 5 minutes, Midori?

08/09/2007    10:03:48 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	ok
08/09/2007    10:04:30 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Just wanted to quickly show two things while Midori's still here...


08/09/2007    10:04:37 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	First, "remove redundant links..."

08/09/2007    10:05:21 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Hmm... maybe not. The responsiveness of Java on this emulator is terrible.

08/09/2007    10:05:41 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Never mind, Midori. You can explore this feature on your own, I guess.

08/09/2007    10:06:04 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	OK, I'll give it a try, maybe tomorrow.
08/09/2007    10:06:31 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	one thing before I go, re: releasing -- those of us working on the GO-CL cross products are really looking forward to having the O-E 2.0 intersection editor available
08/09/2007    10:06:47 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	(even tho I haven't tried it myself yet)
08/09/2007    10:06:47 AM    from Harold to All Attendees:
	It is grayed out on my menu.. resumably it is only active if you have a redundant link?
08/09/2007    10:06:57 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	What do you mean, Midori? Is that an argument for a quick official release? The intersection editor is already there...

08/09/2007    10:07:43 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	Hm, depends. Will xprods made in a 2.0 beta stay put if we load into 1.101 to save for committing?
08/09/2007    10:07:57 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	If so, we're not coupled so tightly to an official releas.
08/09/2007    10:08:14 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	(pardon my typing)
08/09/2007    10:08:21 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	As far as I know, yes. There may be some tangle I'm not thinking of, though.

08/09/2007    10:08:33 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	ok, we'll test it.
08/09/2007    10:08:48 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	hey,. that redundant link window looks promising
08/09/2007    10:09:01 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	really oughta go now ...
08/09/2007    10:09:02 AM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	yeah I can't wait to use it.

08/09/2007    10:09:07 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Bye, Midori.

08/09/2007    10:09:28 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	see you at office hours (maybe monday, certainly thursday)
08/09/2007    10:09:34 AM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
	bye!
08/09/2007    10:09:39 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	The redundant link remover shows you all the redundant links in your ontology, and will delete the checked-off links when you click "Finish"

08/09/2007    10:09:49 AM    from Jane Lomax to All Participants:
	I like the look of the redundant links feature...
08/09/2007    10:10:16 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	In the future, I'll provide two versions of this: "conservative" (what you're looking at now) and "aggressive"

08/09/2007    10:10:38 AM    from Jane Lomax to All Participants:
	what would aggressive do?
08/09/2007    10:11:09 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Aggressive redundant link removal will wipe out every single user-specified link that could have been derived by the reasoner. It will delete lots of links in ontologies with intersections.

08/09/2007    10:11:39 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Conservative redundant link removal only removes links that are redundant because of transitivity.

08/09/2007    10:11:54 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	why do user-created links need to be removed by reasoner-inferred links? If the link is already created, there is no need to infer it?
08/09/2007    10:12:34 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	If a link can be inferred, it shouldn't be in there explicitly. It makes the ontology harder to maintain.

08/09/2007    10:12:49 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	why?
08/09/2007    10:13:01 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Imagine if every term under cellular_component had an is_a link back to the root.

08/09/2007    10:13:12 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	why would it need that?
08/09/2007    10:13:32 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Well, those would be true links, but they would be unnecessary and horrible to maintain.

08/09/2007    10:13:46 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	but why would you need them if there is already an is-a path
08/09/2007    10:14:24 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	That's the point of this redundant link remover. It says "there's already an is_a (or part_of, or whatever) path that means the same as this link"

08/09/2007    10:14:57 AM    from Jane Lomax to All Participants:
	an editor may have put them in, Karen
08/09/2007    10:15:32 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	perhaps someone could provide a specific example of what you mean, not necessarily now, but next time
08/09/2007    10:16:03 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I'll show the current GO next time, and maybe we can find a familiar looking example.

08/09/2007    10:16:16 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	(Although by then I suspect Jane will have used this feature to wipe out all my potential examples)

08/09/2007    10:16:35 AM    from Jane Lomax to All Participants:
	quite possibly :)
08/09/2007    10:16:50 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	Well, then just keep a note of which version of the file contains examples.
08/09/2007    10:17:14 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I also plan to add a feature that adds certain kinds of redundant links...

08/09/2007    10:17:25 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	How will removing redundant links affect other uses of GO where the reasoner is not available, e.g. loading the GO paths into a database and showing the relationships without using OBO-Edit?
08/09/2007    10:17:49 AM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	These links probably appear more in draft ontologies people are building quickly.
08/09/2007    10:17:54 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Never fear - it will only remove links that I promise you would want to remove anyway.

08/09/2007    10:18:20 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	show me an example, in the abstract it's not terribly meaningful
08/09/2007    10:18:22 AM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	karen, those of us editing much more slowly than GO can provide lots of examples.

08/09/2007    10:18:47 AM    from Jane Lomax to All Participants:
	I regularly remove links that are redundant by transitivity from GO - I took out 3 yesterday
08/09/2007    10:19:06 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	show me an example, in the abstract it's not terribly meaningful
08/09/2007    10:19:22 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	and I can wait till next time.
08/09/2007    10:19:37 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Okay, Karen. I'll have an example ready to go at next Thursday's office hours.

08/09/2007    10:21:03 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	(Hmm... something seems to be wrong with the link filter's redundant link detector...)

08/09/2007    10:21:12 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Anyway, let's move on to the other thing I wanted to show.

08/09/2007    10:21:25 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Notice the little widget in the bottom right corner of the graph editor...

08/09/2007    10:22:06 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	We now have a little overview of the whole graph.

08/09/2007    10:22:32 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	If you'd like your overview window to be a bit bigger, drag the handles.

08/09/2007    10:22:53 AM    from Jane Lomax to All Participants:
	very nice!
08/09/2007    10:23:19 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I don't know how useful this will actually be in real life, but it looks kinda cool.

08/09/2007    10:23:49 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	I like the comparable overview feature in Adobe Illustrator, so it seems useful.
08/09/2007    10:24:19 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I've also fixed a major bug in the graph editor. In previous versions, sometimes the graph editor would suddenly leap to a bizarre location while you were panning around. After a day of detective work, I finally tracked that problem down.

08/09/2007    10:24:51 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	If you had a bad experience like that with the graph editor, you may now feel safe to try it again.

08/09/2007    10:25:17 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I also fixed a few bugs in the dag graph viewer, so try that again too if you were unsatisfied with its results in the past.

08/09/2007    10:26:02 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	AND, now long term names are wrapped properly.

08/09/2007    10:27:39 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	That's all I have. If you haven't posted your feature priorities yet, please do. I'm working through the list based on people's current priorities.

08/09/2007    10:27:44 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Make your voice heard!

08/09/2007    10:29:11 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Anything else before we go?

08/09/2007    10:29:21 AM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	no
08/09/2007    10:30:07 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	Maybe, now that we've shifted the WG meetings to every other week, with office hours on alternating weeks, we could keep people's individual bug issues to office hours. We didn't start this meeting for real until 9:50.
08/09/2007    10:30:18 AM    from Harold to All Participants:
	any  chance of getting the graphiviz plugin working with this again?
08/09/2007    10:30:45 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I was hoping to deprecate that plugin, actually...

08/09/2007    10:30:59 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	What does it do that the graph editor/graph dag viewer isn't doing now?

08/09/2007    10:31:12 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	(Feel free to leave if you aren't interested in this discussion, BTW)

08/09/2007    10:31:24 AM    from Harold to All Participants:
	As midori indicated in the sf item, it has it's uses for quickly viewing the realtionships all at once
08/09/2007    10:31:45 AM    from Harold to All Participants:
	IN he dag viewer, I have to open many up manually, etc
08/09/2007    10:32:11 AM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	I would like to see a show path to root for instance.
08/09/2007    10:32:29 AM    from Harold to All Participants:
	.. hu oh; I have  another meetting to go to. will read the minues
08/09/2007    10:32:30 AM    from Harold to All Participants:
	bye
08/09/2007    10:32:35 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Bye

08/09/2007    10:33:18 AM    from Jane Lomax to All Participants:
	bye
08/09/2007    10:33:20 AM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	Those commands didn't seem to show for me on B10 -- will try again.
08/09/2007    10:33:42 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Yeah, give these a try. They should offer much more powerful analyses than you can get with the graphviz tool.

08/09/2007    10:33:48 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	bye
08/09/2007    10:33:53 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I think I've addressed the bug that was hiding these.

08/09/2007    10:33:59 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Bye, Karen.

08/09/2007    10:34:01 AM    from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
	Thanks, bye.
08/09/2007    10:34:22 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	And Karen, I will try to do better at keeping bug talk confined to office hours.

08/09/2007    10:34:25 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	You're right about that.

08/09/2007    10:34:33 AM    from melissaH to All Participants:
	(me too!)

08/09/2007    10:34:43 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Could someone save the minutes? I lost the first half because I had to switch computers..

08/09/2007    10:34:49 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	I just did
08/09/2007    10:34:54 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Thanks, Karen.

08/09/2007    10:35:47 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	Partly, I'd like us to get in the habit of keeping the 'formal' meetings on track, so that my stand in when I'm on maternity leave only needs to attend the official meetings  without sitting through lots of bug talk.
08/09/2007    10:36:14 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Karen - would you like me to send out a meeting agenda the day before?

08/09/2007    10:36:33 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Or, would you like to do the demo section first?

08/09/2007    10:36:53 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	I think that would be helpful, for everyone, not just for my standin. Personally, I l ike taking care of the business items before doing the demos.
08/09/2007    10:37:47 AM    from Jane Lomax to All Participants:
	when do you go on maternity leave, Karen?
08/09/2007    10:37:52 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Good to know. I'll try to keep us more on track, Karen.

08/09/2007    10:38:03 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	I'll be out from Sept 17 t hrough the end of December.
08/09/2007    10:38:58 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Good luck!


08/09/2007    10:38:59 AM    from Jane Lomax to All Participants:
	huh - I'll be gone from 17th Sept too!
08/09/2007    10:39:26 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	I'm not sure my stand it, likely Rama, will get involved with testing, but since SGD is the production environment, I was thinking we should have an SGD rep to be in touch with the plans for making an official release and then making it the official  
08/09/2007    10:39:37 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	version for GO, since that must be coordinated with the production environment.
08/09/2007    10:39:54 AM    to Jane Lomax (privately):
	when are you due?
08/09/2007    10:40:08 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Maybe Mike would want to do that? He's most familiar with the production environment standards anyway.


08/09/2007    10:40:12 AM    from Jane Lomax to All Participants:
	18th september
08/09/2007    10:40:38 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	Mike will not want to attend these meetings, he  has more than enough already.
08/09/2007    10:40:53 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	meetings, that is.
08/09/2007    10:41:00 AM    from Jane Lomax (privately):
	(actually, I'll be gone from 17th *August* - doh!)
08/09/2007    10:41:33 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Okay - if there's no one available from your group when the time comes, I'll just try to stay in email communication with Mike to make sure everything is up to snuff as far as he's concerned.

08/09/2007    10:41:56 AM    to Jane Lomax (privately):
	I wish I had UK maternity leave. I could go out a little earlier (I'm due Sept 20 but may go late), but then will only have 3 months of paid leave, which is tons in the US!
08/09/2007    10:42:33 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	OK, sounds good John, but I think Rama will be able to sit in for at least the business part to keep in touch with the proposed timeline for an official release.
08/09/2007    10:42:37 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Sweet.

08/09/2007    10:42:44 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	So you next Thursday, folks.

08/09/2007    10:42:53 AM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Bye, everyone.

08/09/2007    10:42:54 AM    from Karen Christie to All Participants:
	for office hours :)