Kidney - KDM Minutes

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Present: Yasmin Alam-Faruque, Emily Dimmer, David Hill, Midori Harris, Becky Foulger, Susan Tweedie, Bernard de Bono, Duncan Davidson, Randall Thomas, Adrian Woolf, Jane Lomax. Doug Howe remotely in Eugene.

David introduces GO. David's slide presentation.[]

Duncan - Nephrogenesis is not an exact synonym of kidney development

David - it can either be a new term itself or a narrow synonym of kidney development or both. So searching for nephrogenesis will bring back 'nephron development' and 'kidney development'

Kidney field development David - we could follow the pattern of heart field development

Susan - Flies don't have kidneys, might not be wise to call malpighian tubule a synonym of kidney.

Adrian - How is GO defining a kidney

David - In the definition, urine doesn't fit for a lot of organisms

Adrian - "filter the blood and excretes the end products" - doesn't fit malpighian tubule which don't filter

Becky - need to get rid of filter part?

Randall - filtering part is not very important, kidney regulates homeostasis of the blood

Adrian - don't agree with this, in embryonic fish it is critical to get rid of water so filtration is key.

Susan - I would prefer a grouping term such as renal/excretory system

Adrian - Malpighian tubule is similar to kidney, so should be included. Is ureter part of the kidney?

David - no, it will be a separate structure

Adrian - epithelium of the ureter would be included as part of the kidney - how address this?

David - Ureter will be separate, epithelium coming from the kidney is a lineage relationship, lineage is not encoded in GO. epithelial development will be a process but not the origin of it.

Adrian - In mammalian, cells in interstitial tubes should be included

Duncan - and the vascular network

David - we have urogenital system devpt, so malpighian tubules could be part_of this? Then the two different parts of fly malpighian tubule under this

Susan - this is too broad, people will search for renal in fly terms.

Bernard - blood vessels conduct blood, endothelial cells have receptors detecting flow, growth factors then released - function is intimately linked with the maintenance of the structure, i.e. a recapitulation of the development of the structure. Where will maintenance of the structure be?

David - maintenance is not related (always) to development in GO - it is difficult to define in GO, regeneration/remodeling are also in GO and these are intimately tied to development

Becky - so we will have a renal system development?

David - yes, and we need a definition for it.

Emily - so renal will cover both kidney and malpighian tubules?

Becky - Yes, but how do the expert define the renal system?

Adrian - it will have to be broad - cells and/or organ

Randall - maintaining fluid balance is key

Bernard - what does fluid balance mean? Volume and composition?

Randall - the problem is encompassing all organisms, fish have salt excretory system

Adrian - shouldn't include filtration in the renal term

Randall - in larger mammals it is the secretion/excretion that maintains balance rather than filtration.

Adrian - water is not an excretory product

Randall - what about acid/base - does fly system contribute to this

Adrian - if we include the fluid balance and also may be important in electrolyte balance

Randall - maintains fluid balance and contributes to electrolyte and excretion of waste products and acid/base balance

Adrian - and disposal of nitrogenous waste.

David - now move kidney development term and what about urinary bladder development, is that under renal system?

Randall - some of the functions of the kidney are taken care of by the bladder

Adrian - but this is still part of renal system. Should we have in the definition, the production of urine?

Randall - fluid balance covers that as some animals don't excrete much urine

Kidney development term discussion;

David - definition of an organ is quite broad,s o that is OK in the definition

Becky - and/or excretes end products of metabolism

Randall - urologist, everything from the kidney down; nephrologist, just the kidney.

Adrian - do we want urine in the definition, is there urine in all organisms

Becky - in the definition we are only saying it produces urine, not that urinary tract is part of kidney.

David - malpighian tubules is not part of the kidney system, that is the renal system

Emily - how does def of kidney and renal differ in terms of function

Adrian - Will have to make a decision of whether to throw out other organisms

David - Susan is saying that flies don't have kidney, so we'll only include vertebrates

Emily - Taxon check for kidney development only_in vertebrates

Duncan - are we defining the kidney and then attaching the function of the structure to the definition

Adrian - I would like to see the addition of the word urine in the kidney definition

David - do we still need the 'filtration of blood'? Get rid of the and/or excretes and just have and - as we are only talking about vertebrates.

Emily - for taxon checks, is malpighian tubules just in insecta?

Susan - yes

Becky - is the kidney field the same as kidney anlage

David - pretty much

Adrian - I don't know enough about spiders, worms etc. as to whether they have kidneys or not

Randall - well we wouldn't call them kidneys, so it's OK

David - we can have a taxon check for that, it doesn't need to go into the definition

David - we can define the kidney very specifically now, and anything that doesn't fit will be put as renal system development

Kidney field discussion;