OE Webex 11Oct07: Difference between revisions

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(New page: <pre> 10/18/2007 17:30:29 PM from melissaH to All Attendees: Hiya,been absent from all the hullaballoo recently. wow. 10/18/2007 17:31:08 PM from Midori Harris to All Attendees...)
 
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10/18/2007    17:30:29 PM    from melissaH to All Attendees:
10/11/2007    17:28:42 PM    from Midori Harris to All Attendees:
Hiya,been absent from all the hullaballoo recently. wow.
hi Erika!
10/18/2007    17:31:08 PM    from Midori Harris to All Attendees:
10/11/2007    17:28:51 PM    from erika to All Attendees:
indeed
Hi
10/18/2007    17:33:09 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
Midori
Hi, all. Sorry I'm late.
10/11/2007    17:29:10 PM    from erika to All Attendees:
10/18/2007    17:33:23 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
How are
you doing?
10/11/2007    17:29:32 PM    from Midori Harris to All Attendees:
Fine; how are you?
10/11/2007    17:29:37 PM    from erika to All Attendees:
I am
quite tired :-(
10/11/2007    17:29:52 PM    from erika to All Attendees:
but
happy because we have finished with the muscle meeting stuff
10/11/2007    17:29:59 PM    from Midori Harris to All Attendees:
that's great!!!
10/11/2007    17:30:08 PM    from Midori Harris to All Attendees:
(and a good reason to be tired)
10/11/2007    17:30:43 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Attendees:
hi
hi
10/18/2007    17:33:33 PM    from melissaH to All Attendees:
10/11/2007    17:30:43 PM    from erika to All Attendees:
hi john!
Ageda
 
for today says that it is a very important meeting
10/18/2007    17:33:42 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:30:47 PM    from erika to All Attendees:
hi john again!
Hi Jen
10/18/2007    17:34:05 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:31:01 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Attendees:
I also apologize for the lack of a new release - my evening was
another really important one?
taken up by an evening in the emergency room with my beloved, which,
10/11/2007    17:31:07 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Attendees:
luckily, turned out to be nothing.
gosh
10/18/2007    17:34:13 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:31:56 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Attendees:
whew!
I love the new menu item called 'change inverse necessity to true'
10/18/2007    17:34:14 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:32:20 PM    from Midori Harris to All Attendees:
Hi John!
there's no accounting for taste ;)
 
10/11/2007    17:32:25 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Attendees:
10/18/2007    17:34:23 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
Is that a psychological phenomenon?
oh dear!
10/11/2007    17:32:27 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Attendees:
10/18/2007    17:34:54 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
:-)
But, on the plus side, I saw a vivid illustration of what
10/11/2007    17:32:35 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Attendees:
happens when you skateboard with a beer, and then fall over onto your
what can it mean?
beer.
10/11/2007    17:33:19 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
10/18/2007    17:35:01 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Hi, all.
It's not pretty.
10/11/2007    17:33:22 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:35:18 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
hi
I guess that wasn't what happened to your wife?
10/11/2007    17:33:31 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:35:33 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
how's it going?
Similar, but with polo ponies.
10/11/2007    17:33:47 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:35:39 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
Our little boy didn't wake up until 7:50 this morning. It felt
like a vacation.
10/11/2007    17:33:52 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
wow!
wow!
10/18/2007    17:35:41 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:34:08 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
classy
note to self: do not have children
10/18/2007    17:35:57 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:34:09 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
she skateboarded with a polo pony?
parenthood makes ya easy to please
10/18/2007    17:35:59 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:34:38 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
we are going to miss you john
It's true - I'll do any old kind of heroin now. I don't need any
10/18/2007    17:36:23 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
fancy-schmancy turkish white these days.
hey! some of us are still in denial here, ok?
10/11/2007    17:35:15 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:36:33 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
would that explain the menu option  'change inverse necessity to true'?
hello!
10/11/2007    17:35:27 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:36:41 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
It intrigues me
Who is in denial?
10/11/2007    17:35:47 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:36:45 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
No, that refers to an obscure OBO 1.0 feature that we have never
Hello, Tanya.
really used. I'm going to ask Chris to deprecate it in OBO 1.3
10/18/2007    17:36:47 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:35:54 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
oh right..... google who?
oh ok
10/18/2007    17:36:50 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:36:02 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
It's not just a river in Egypt, you know.
I thought it was *the future*
10/18/2007    17:37:00 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:36:07 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
Midori - she thinks that Golden Girls is going to come back on
shame
the air.
10/11/2007    17:36:09 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:37:22 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
I think we should deprecate all the necessity and cardinality
Anyway -
features of OBO
10/18/2007    17:37:38 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:36:15 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I said denial, not schizophrenia ...
okey dokey
10/18/2007    17:37:49 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:36:25 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I'll give a brief summary of what I've gotten done this week:
I wont ask what they are then
10/18/2007    17:38:06 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:36:30 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
OBO-Edit has been broken into 3 projects:
that's out of my league anyway
10/18/2007    17:38:13 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:36:33 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
org.bbop
To answer your question about the graph viz viewer...
10/18/2007    17:38:15 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:36:58 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
org.obo
suspense
10/18/2007    17:38:17 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:37:11 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
org.oboedit
I removed it because it wasn't working anyway - changes I made
10/18/2007    17:38:44 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
in the selection system for OBO-Edit 2.0 had rendered it useless, and
Each of which now has its own subversion repository on
starting it up would only do one thing: hose your config files.
sourceforge.
10/11/2007    17:37:18 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:39:10 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
I thought it safer to remove it entirely.
This means that future developers can use the ontology
10/11/2007    17:37:25 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
loading/editing stuff (from org.obo) without having to load the OBO-Edit
drat.
gui stuff.
10/11/2007    17:37:26 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:39:33 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
oh dear
nice
10/11/2007    17:37:43 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:39:42 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
so we have to stick with 1.101 until we can use the graph editor?
In other news, I've been experimenting with other ways of
10/11/2007    17:37:46 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
engineering the reasoner.
reasonable course of action, but we miss it
10/18/2007    17:39:47 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:38:24 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
(tho not something I'll rush out and use)
Well, the graph viz viewer is more like the Graph DAG Viewer
10/18/2007    17:40:25 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
than the Graph Editor...
While conducting those experiments, I tested a prototype
10/11/2007    17:38:32 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
reasoner against our tried and true reasoner, to make sure it was giving
I'll probably keep 1.101 around for when I want graphics to put in talks
the correct answers.
& papers ...
10/18/2007    17:40:44 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:38:52 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I was shocked to discover that the tried-and-true reasoner was
I might work up to the graph DAG viewer then
NOT giving (wholly) correct answers, and the prototype was!
10/11/2007    17:39:02 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:41:04 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
yes, good idea Midori
urk
10/11/2007    17:39:05 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:41:05 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
What's lacking the graph dag viewer that the graphviz component
oh my.
has? Maybe I can just add it to the OBO-Edit 2.0 graphing stuff?
10/18/2007    17:41:20 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:39:18 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
It turns out that the current reasoner architecture always
("lacking in" I meant)
infers the right links, but it doesn't infer every possible explanation
10/11/2007    17:39:45 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
for those links.
I'm still in training for the graph DAG viewer. I made it to 20 minutes
10/18/2007    17:41:26 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
use today before it hosed my brain. I'm going to test it on david
hey-suess.
tomorrow
10/18/2007    17:41:43 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:40:00 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
This is important, because the explanations are used to do fast
I think it just takes brain training
link deletion while the reasoner is running.
10/11/2007    17:40:12 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:41:56 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
I had a question about that, Jen...
So the old reasoner may exhibit incorrect incremental link
10/11/2007    17:40:16 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
deletion.
yes?
10/18/2007    17:42:41 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:40:31 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
Trouble is, the new reasoner design is slower to start up, and
for me it's mainly the appearance, including that it can be configured
(initially) used more memory.
separately from the main gui
10/18/2007    17:43:28 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:40:42 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
oh no!
yes that's also inportant
more memory! This is the time for me to buy a new machine
10/11/2007    17:41:04 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:43:31 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Or maybe it's Midori. Anyway, someone said that when they
I mentioned this conundrum on the developer mailing lists, and
clicked a term in the ontology editor panel, they wanted the whole path
Jen and Midori mentioned that OBO-Edit tends to run worse with the  
to expand in the graph editor.
reasoner on as it is, with symptoms consistent with nearly-maxed-out
10/11/2007    17:41:15 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
memory conditions.
that was Jen
10/18/2007    17:43:47 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:41:15 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
Jen was really alarmed at the idea that the reasoner would use
that was me
even more memory.
10/11/2007    17:41:18 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:44:12 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
:-)
Yesterday, I decided to see exactly how much more speed & memory
10/11/2007    17:41:25 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
use I could get out of the reasoner.
see, we've got our story straight!
10/18/2007    17:44:16 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:41:34 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
And there's good news!
true!
10/18/2007    17:44:19 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:41:40 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
The symptoms were very different from the 1.x reasoner slowness.
It's quite easy for me to add that, but I wanted to make sure
10/18/2007    17:44:51 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
that everyone wants it to behave this way. If there's disagreement, I'll
The new reasoner is still slower than the old reasoner, but it's  
make it configurable.
only about 3 times slower (as opposed to 10 times slower in the initial
10/11/2007    17:41:56 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
version) and it uses much LESS memory.
I'm not quite sure yet as I haven't used it much
10/18/2007    17:45:28 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:42:02 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
And you can turn on a memory save feature where it runs about
same here
30% slower still, but uses even less memory.
10/11/2007    17:42:02 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:46:18 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
would configurable be hard?
And realize that the slower/faster language only refers to the
10/11/2007    17:42:17 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
initial startup time of the reasoner. Once it's running, new edits are
it seems like this may be the new big thing and configurable is always
incorporated in under 1 second.
good
10/18/2007    17:46:27 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:42:20 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
So that's the reasoner stuff.
It would probably add 10 minutes to this 30 minute task.
10/18/2007    17:47:23 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:42:27 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
<applause>
which one?
10/18/2007    17:47:51 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:42:44 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Finally, in the course of fixing a bug related to text editing
Configurability would add 10 minutes to the 30 minute task of
dbxrefs and synonyms, I realized that the simplest, best way to deal
automatic path expansion
with the problem is to tear out some old legacy stuff from OBO-Edit 1.1
10/11/2007    17:42:54 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
and replace it entirely with shiny new bbop.org
oh well that would be very very good then
10/18/2007    17:47:55 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:42:56 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
components.
:-)
10/18/2007    17:48:35 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:42:59 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
So that's taking longer than I thought.
thank you
10/18/2007    17:48:38 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:43:19 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
End of summary.
we're a little sparsely populated today aren't we?
10/18/2007    17:49:59 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:43:33 PM    from erika to All Attendees:
we seem to be speechless
yes, we
10/18/2007    17:50:15 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
are
awestruck
10/11/2007    17:43:47 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:50:33 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
I've just forwarded the invite to Harold, cos he's reported a search bug
seeing stars
10/11/2007    17:43:47 PM    from erika to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:50:43 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
yes, we
Has everyone been updating the wiki with their testing tasks?
are
10/18/2007    17:50:49 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:43:52 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
yes
is it just general chit chat today or is there excitement to be had?
10/18/2007    17:50:56 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:44:19 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
I have
Here we go.
10/18/2007    17:51:10 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:44:26 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
Jen, there was a mysterious bug report from you today...
did you get lost?
10/18/2007    17:51:13 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:44:27 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
I am out of date... been out of town. tell me what you want me to do....
I got dumped about a minute ago.
 
10/11/2007    17:44:37 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:51:15 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
Anyway, I was saying -
<guilt> no </guilt>
10/11/2007    17:44:39 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:51:37 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
... and Karen E has just mailed a question to the wg list
Jen - you said that the graph viewer should "show the path to
10/11/2007    17:45:06 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
root". It does that.
I was just asking if there is anything important today as I think Erika
10/18/2007    17:51:45 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
is double booked and might appreciate being elsewhere if she would not
But only if the reasoner is on.
be missing anything
10/18/2007    17:51:47 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:45:22 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
does it?
Just one thing, I guess -
10/18/2007    17:51:49 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:45:37 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
oh
yes?
10/18/2007    17:52:02 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:45:47 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
so I should bug test with the reasoner on then
On the developers list, I got 2 votes for the massive
10/18/2007    17:52:06 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
rearrangement of OBO-Edit that I suggested on the Wiki.
I didn't know  that
10/11/2007    17:45:59 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:52:08 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I didn't really know enought to comment
thanks
10/11/2007    17:46:02 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:52:09 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
That's enough for me to act, so last night I started taking
I think that in the next release, I'm going to switch to the new
everything apart.
reasoner, and turn it on by default.
10/11/2007    17:46:07 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:52:14 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
oh good plan
I have a question:
10/11/2007    17:46:20 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:52:16 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
The short version is that things that have worked for a long,
eek!
long time might start behaving weirdly. Keep an eye out.
10/18/2007    17:52:25 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:46:28 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
(not about the reasoner directly) ...
I go neutral & quiet when talk turns to code innards.
10/18/2007    17:52:26 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:46:51 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
In a perfect world, "no reasoner" mode won't even be available
we'll keep an eye out
in the OBO-Edit 2 release.
10/11/2007    17:46:54 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:52:30 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
I have been noticing weirdness ... but since before last night!
Go ahead, Midori.
10/11/2007    17:47:06 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
10/18/2007    17:52:48 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
Are we gonna talk bugs today?
In the shiny new search system, how does one search for redundant
10/11/2007    17:47:16 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
relationships?
I think so - Erika, you're free to go.
10/18/2007    17:53:10 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:47:17 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
Good question!
should we make another testing list for post-rearrangement?
10/18/2007    17:53:23 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:47:25 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I try
bye erika
10/18/2007    17:53:24 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:47:34 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
That merits some thoughtful discussion.
I think everyone's pre-rearrangement list should still do fine.
10/18/2007    17:53:44 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:47:34 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
See, everyone HATED the old "link search" options, and never
used them.
10/18/2007    17:53:57 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
But this is exactly what you need to find redundant
relationships.
10/18/2007    17:54:33 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
But, for simplicity, I don't even present a link searching
component right now, so there's no way to do it.
10/18/2007    17:54:38 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
That's what I used ... in fact, it was the only thing I ever did use the
link filter for.
10/18/2007    17:54:58 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
Well, at lesat I can take comfort in not feeling stupid --
10/18/2007    17:55:01 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
So I can think of two ways of dealing with this -
10/18/2007    17:55:01 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I only realised how they worked from the reading the developer docs
10/18/2007    17:55:08 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
there was nothing staring me in the face.
10/18/2007    17:55:39 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
I can add a "Link Search" option to the View -> Search menu,
that presents a search control just like the one you see by default, but
has link-centric options...
10/18/2007    17:56:08 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Or I can leave things as they are, and add a "has redundant
parents" search criterion to the term search panel.
10/18/2007    17:56:35 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I still don't know whether I would ever search links for anything other
than redundant relationships, so the second option would meet my present
needs.
10/18/2007    17:56:42 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
And, of course, now that I've typed that, it seems fairly
obvious I should do both.
10/18/2007    17:57:01 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
Are there other reasons one might want to use the link search?
 
10/18/2007    17:57:12 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Absolutely. Link searches let you:
10/18/2007    17:57:14 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
If not, it may just be more confusing to have the first option
present.
10/18/2007    17:57:22 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
* find implied links
10/18/2007    17:57:27 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
* find links of a certain type
10/18/2007    17:57:41 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
* find links with certain type properties (like transitive
links)
10/18/2007    17:58:00 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
* find links in a certain namespace (which will become very
important when we start creating cross product files)
10/18/2007    17:58:02 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
ok
10/18/2007    17:58:03 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
ok
10/18/2007    17:58:03 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
ok
10/18/2007    17:58:06 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
v. useful
10/18/2007    17:58:08 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
and other cool stuff.
10/18/2007    17:58:09 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
:)
10/18/2007    17:58:11 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I found the link thing much more intuitive after reading the developer
docs on the wiki. I could post the url.
10/18/2007    17:58:39 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
Maybe it should go in the users (user's -didn't we have this
discussion?) guide as well.
10/18/2007    17:58:40 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Another idea:
10/18/2007    17:58:57 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
What if we add context-dependent help to each component?
10/18/2007    17:59:12 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
That would be cool.
10/18/2007    17:59:15 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
that would be good
10/18/2007    17:59:17 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
wow
10/18/2007    17:59:26 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
Cause who wants to read the manual anyway?
10/18/2007    17:59:28 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Like we add a little question mark next to the little black
icons at the top of each component. When you click the question mark it
goes right to the relevant documentation page.
10/18/2007    17:59:38 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
Yup, yup, yup.
10/18/2007    18:00:03 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
Might get a little glyph ridden but might not.
10/18/2007    18:00:32 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
Argh.  Got to run to next meeting.  Will catch up with
transcript.
10/18/2007    18:00:36 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
There's a lot of room for extra glyphs right now, and a question
mark would have the advantage of being immediately comprehensible.
10/18/2007    18:00:40 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Bye Tanya.
10/18/2007    18:00:41 PM    from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
Bye
10/18/2007    18:00:44 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
The question mark is widely recognized, tho, so won't add too much
clutter.
10/18/2007    18:00:45 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
bye!
bye!
10/18/2007    18:01:12 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:47:37 PM    from erika to All Participants:
I had another bug report question, hold on...
I will  
10/18/2007    18:01:47 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
stay
(I was just saying goodbye to tanya, not leaving)
10/11/2007    17:47:41 PM    from erika to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:01:48 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
for a  
Oh, never mind. The bug I was looking at was one we discussed at
office hours.
10/18/2007    18:02:37 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Okay, last issue I wanted to talk about:
10/18/2007    18:02:52 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
I want to kill the GraphViz component and not resurrect it.
10/18/2007    18:03:02 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
It's too much work to port over, IMHO.
10/18/2007    18:03:25 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I'll miss it, but you've explained why it oughta go and I can't really
argue.
10/18/2007    18:03:34 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I think if we could save pics of the graph dag view it would probably be
fine
10/18/2007    18:03:50 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
But a dedicated coder could easily port it as a plugin. I
suspect that Jen could do it if she had copious free time.
10/18/2007    18:04:04 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I think you may be over estimating my skills
10/18/2007    18:04:15 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
or my free time
10/18/2007    18:04:20 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
:-)
10/18/2007    18:04:26 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Ah, I take the second point.
10/18/2007    18:04:35 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
ta :-)
10/18/2007    18:04:44 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I think the graph dag viewer will do it
10/18/2007    18:04:48 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Anyway, the need for this thing should be significantly reduced
when I add rendering the the graph viewer.
10/18/2007    18:04:57 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
once we get the nack of it
10/18/2007    18:05:01 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
what'sthat
10/18/2007    18:05:09 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
?
10/18/2007    18:05:16 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
what's rendering the graph viewr
10/18/2007    18:05:41 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
you mean colouring bits?
10/18/2007    18:05:55 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
john got kicked out
10/18/2007    18:06:02 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
he says he'll be back
10/18/2007    18:06:36 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
As I was saying before the crash - the graph editor will allow
renderers. They're actually pretty easy to add, I just haven't gotten
around to it.
10/18/2007    18:06:53 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
so colouring terms?
10/18/2007    18:07:09 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Coloring terms, backgrounds, maybe even controlling the box
shape.
10/18/2007    18:07:15 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
cool!
10/18/2007    18:07:30 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
and saving the picture to a file
10/18/2007    18:07:35 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Also, I don't know if anyone noticed, but if you right click in
the graph editor, there's a "Save as SVG" option at the bottom of the
right click menu.
10/18/2007    18:07:43 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
great!
10/18/2007    18:08:04 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
will this apply tot he graph dag viewer too?
10/18/2007    18:08:09 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
I'll add the file formats we really want in the next release -
that was kind of an experiment.
10/18/2007    18:08:25 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Yeah - there will be rendering/image saving in the graph dag
viewer too.
10/18/2007    18:08:31 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
excellent!
10/18/2007    18:08:42 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
in that case we should be fine without the graphviz plugin
10/18/2007    18:09:29 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Anyone else have anything they want to talk about?
10/18/2007    18:10:06 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I guess if we have done a load of bug testing we just wait for you to
get to our bug reports?
10/18/2007    18:10:16 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
no sense producng more yet?
10/18/2007    18:10:40 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
When's the next release out? If it's just a day or two, I'll wait for it
before doing more testing.
10/18/2007    18:10:59 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Well, the more bugs I know about the better, since we want fast
turnaround times. But I hope to have a release out by Friday night.
10/18/2007    18:11:22 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I'll wait, then, because I'm taking tomorrow afternoon off.
10/18/2007    18:11:25 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
So don't waste too much time bug testing if you've got lots of
bug reports out on your current testing area.
10/18/2007    18:11:26 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
Actually I can try the various graph things witht he reasonder on so
I'll do that
10/18/2007    18:11:39 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
back in the saddle on monday
10/18/2007    18:11:50 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
That's a good idea. The reasoner is an essential part of
OBO-Edit 2. I really want it on most of the time
10/18/2007    18:12:02 PM    from hurdle to All Participants:
hi everyone; betterr late then never I guess
10/18/2007    18:12:07 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
how do we describe reasoner bugs?
10/18/2007    18:12:19 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
if it just makes things slow do we say that?
10/18/2007    18:12:44 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
You probably won't know you're looking at a reasoner bug most of
the time, but if you just notice worse performance in general, report
that.
10/18/2007    18:12:54 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
It would help if you could talk about what form the bad
performance took.
10/18/2007    18:12:55 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
ok
10/18/2007    18:13:01 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
sure
10/18/2007    18:13:06 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I will time things
10/18/2007    18:13:21 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
If you're running into problems like that, also see what happens
if you turn off other applications on your machine.
10/18/2007    18:13:25 PM    from hurdle to All Participants:
I've noticed that in using it OE for just searches, it appears to get
slower and slower and I do more and more searches
10/18/2007    18:13:49 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
sometime the form is that the music I'm listening to on my machine skips
bits when I run the reasoner:-)
10/18/2007    18:13:56 PM    from Chris Mungall to All Participants:
Jen: if you describe the sequence of operations, we can make a benchmark
specifically for that
10/18/2007    18:14:03 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
ok :-)
10/18/2007    18:14:07 PM    from hurdle to All Participants:
IF I  the n close and restart, it is ok again.
10/18/2007    18:14:23 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
And if you can't get a consistent script, it means that your
machine memory is just maxed out.
10/18/2007    18:14:43 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
The only recourse is to shut down big memory hog applications
like, say, iTunes or something.
10/18/2007    18:15:07 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
what's a consistent script?
10/18/2007    18:15:44 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
You know - 1) open gene_ontology_edit.obo 2) copy
cellular_component to molecular_function 3) notice blue screen
10/18/2007    18:16:07 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
oh I see
10/18/2007    18:16:22 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
the thing is I never usuall have other things running
10/18/2007    18:16:32 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
so there's not anything I can shut down
10/18/2007    18:16:37 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Zounds!
10/18/2007    18:16:48 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I need webex and skype
10/18/2007    18:16:50 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Hopefully the new reasoner prototype will do a little better for
you.
10/18/2007    18:16:51 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
so they are on
10/18/2007    18:17:01 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
but that's it
10/18/2007    18:18:01 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Now I'm anxious to get this new release out to see how the
reasoner behaves for people.
10/18/2007    18:18:05 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
some browsers can eat memory, especially if they've been running for a  
while
while
10/18/2007    18:18:33 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:47:41 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
Harold - how many searches do you have to do before you notice
okay :-)
the slowdown?
10/11/2007    17:47:54 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:18:40 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Back to what I was saying a second ago -
And has anyone else seen this?
10/11/2007    17:48:10 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:19:10 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
Jen, I saw your nice email about the new link expander popup in
I rarely use it as it is very slow
the graph viewer. that was one of two possible interfaces I thought of,
10/18/2007    18:19:11 PM    from hurdle to All Participants:
and I chose the easier one.
oh, about I'd say 10-15; I use it for searching for terms to annotate
10/11/2007    17:48:19 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:19:19 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
it rocks
I have ... it's one aspect of the general "things don't work" that we
10/11/2007    17:48:35 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
talked about yesterday.
perfect :-)
10/18/2007    18:19:37 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:48:50 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
oddly, on my mac I can work with the reasoner just fine
The other possibility was to list the links in a table where you  
10/18/2007    18:19:44 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
could click the column headers and sort by term name or relationship
it's the windows machine that struggles
type id (like in the search results panel)
10/18/2007    18:19:46 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:49:05 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
For me it's pretty variable, possibly because I've been doing varying
Would you like to see that kind of interface, or is the current
numbers of other things besides searches.
thing good enough?
10/18/2007    18:20:03 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:49:26 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
So, just to be clear, the bug is "searches grow progressively
I think that if there were enough that we'd need such complication then
slower when the reasoner is on?"
I'd just use the ontology editor panel
10/18/2007    18:20:25 PM    from hurdle to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:49:27 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
Not sure; will have to check but if the reasoner is on by default, yes
Hi Karen!
10/18/2007    18:20:30 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:49:30 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
for me , yes.
to seletc the child
10/18/2007    18:20:42 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:49:36 PM    from karen Eilbeck to All Participants:
for me
hi
too!
10/11/2007    17:49:54 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:20:46 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
I think the current thing is great
Ah, so the bug is "searches grow progressively slower always"
10/11/2007    17:50:04 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:20:59 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
Excellent!
for me it's just that when I look for redundant links things get slow
10/11/2007    17:50:08 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:21:02 PM    from hurdle to All Participants:
Hi, Karen.
so it would seem
10/11/2007    17:50:20 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:21:15 PM    from hurdle to All Participants:
I imagine you've logged on to get some love for your filtering
but that "redundant " thing now has me wondering
question.
10/18/2007    18:21:26 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:50:30 PM    from karen Eilbeck to All Participants:
that's the only time I use the reasoner
absolutely
10/18/2007    18:21:27 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:50:35 PM    from karen Eilbeck to All Participants:
hmmm, I haven't done much with the reasoner off ... so can't shed light
I need love
10/18/2007    18:21:56 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:50:43 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
Is the affect more pronounced when your searches return lots of
(now he reads minds ... or emails)
results?
10/11/2007    17:51:02 PM    from karen Eilbeck to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:22:08 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
Actually its really for colin batchellor who needs it more than me.
is information from 1.101 pertinent as well as 2?
10/11/2007    17:51:04 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:22:20 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
There are two ways of handling this, and both involve global
No, 2 does things totally differently.
filtering.
10/18/2007    18:22:24 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
10/11/2007    17:51:28 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
You could either add a global link filter that says "hide all
disjoint_from links"
10/11/2007    17:51:48 PM    from karen Eilbeck to All Participants:
would this hid the disjoint from children>
10/11/2007    17:52:04 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Or you can take the more general approach (like ZFIN does) and
add a global link filter that says "hide all non-transitive links"
10/11/2007    17:52:45 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
It would hide the disjoint_from children under parents to which
a term has a disjoint_from relationship./
10/11/2007    17:52:53 PM    from karen Eilbeck to All Participants:
OK. I'll try this and get back to you . Thanks for letting me interupt
your session.
10/11/2007    17:53:00 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Good luck!
10/11/2007    17:53:15 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Okay, who wants to lay some bugs on me?
10/11/2007    17:53:24 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
me! me!
10/11/2007    17:53:27 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I have a question:
10/11/2007    17:53:42 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
What do you want us to do when a supposedly fixed bug turns out not to
be fixed?
10/11/2007    17:53:52 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
New SF item or reopen the old one?
10/11/2007    17:54:06 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Reopen the bug report, I think. That way the old info is
available.
10/11/2007    17:54:14 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
What's still broken?
10/11/2007    17:54:14 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
ok, here I go!
10/11/2007    17:54:30 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
My drag-n-drop is still getting "stuck".
10/11/2007    17:54:59 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
that would sound really funny out of context
10/11/2007    17:55:21 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
<giggle> anyway ... Have you reproduced this, or do you want me to show
you?
10/11/2007    17:55:22 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Does this happen no matter what you drag and drop?
10/11/2007    17:55:42 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Maybe you're doing something I didn't try -
10/11/2007    17:55:49 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Anyway, you should probably demo it.
10/11/2007    17:55:54 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I tihnk so ... I have one or two drag/drops- work, and ten I can only do
the same kind of operation as the one(s) that worked.
10/11/2007    17:56:35 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
ok, I"ve got beta15 running, with GO loaded, so I'm ready to share.
10/11/2007    17:57:18 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
do you see my obo-edit?
10/11/2007    17:57:31 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
I do now.
10/11/2007    17:57:35 PM    from erika to All Participants:
no
10/11/2007    17:57:37 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
You'll have to do this quite slowly
10/11/2007    17:57:53 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
ok, trying again ...
10/11/2007    17:58:32 PM    from erika to All Participants:
I can
see oboedit
10/11/2007    17:59:12 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
it's gone
10/11/2007    17:59:16 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
hmm, of course with John watching it works ...
10/11/2007    17:59:30 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
maybe you coudl record it?
10/11/2007    17:59:40 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
It seems I can type in the chat window OR you can see my o-e
10/11/2007    17:59:48 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
I think I'm going to need a step-by-step script to reproduce
this one
10/11/2007    17:59:50 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
yes that's a mac thing
10/11/2007    18:00:02 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
I'm sure I know what *kind* of thing is happening, but I need to
make it happen myself to fix it.
10/11/2007    18:00:07 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
anyway, I"m going to try using hotkeys, because there *may* be a
connection.
10/11/2007    18:00:17 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I'll also send gory details  ...
10/11/2007    18:01:15 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
GOT IT!
10/11/2007    18:01:22 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
So what happened?
10/11/2007    18:01:22 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I saw it too
10/11/2007    18:01:37 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
I couldn't really tell what was going on
10/11/2007    18:01:43 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Was it related to hotkeys?
10/11/2007    18:01:44 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
OK, did you see two drags, both with 'add parent' in the popup?
10/11/2007    18:01:52 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
YEs.
10/11/2007    18:02:26 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
Yes, there seems to be a hotkey link -- I held down the 'p' key the
first time, but NOT the second.
10/11/2007    18:02:48 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Hmm... can you include all this info on the bug report?
10/11/2007    18:02:53 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
Another thing about the hotkeys - I can't get them to work consistently.
10/11/2007    18:03:02 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
They won't work once you're dragging.
10/11/2007    18:03:05 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
There seems to be improvement, because before they didn't work at all
and now they work sometimes, but it's not reliable.
10/11/2007    18:03:28 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
The no-hotkeys-while-dragging thing is, I'm afraid, unsolvable.
10/11/2007    18:03:39 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
We'd have to use a different programming language to fix it.
10/11/2007    18:04:05 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
But are they supposed to work as in 1.x if I press the key first?
10/11/2007    18:04:21 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
If you press the key before you start dragging, yes.
10/11/2007    18:04:30 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
'cause at the moment I'm not sure it helps to push the key down first
... I'll check again
10/11/2007    18:05:07 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
anyway, now my oboedit is stuck on 'add parent', so I'll have to restart
it to get the other operations back.
10/11/2007    18:05:19 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Wait - what does that mean?
10/11/2007    18:05:42 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
"stuck" or "get the other operations back" upon restart?
10/11/2007    18:05:43 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
You can't select anything else from the drag and drop menu, or
every time you drag anything it says "Add parent?"
10/11/2007    18:05:52 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
yep!
10/11/2007    18:06:05 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
watch (look ma, no hotkeys)
10/11/2007    18:06:39 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Now that's interesting!
10/11/2007    18:06:51 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Let me take a quick look at something -
10/11/2007    18:06:56 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
trust me, I just dragged, without holding any keys down
10/11/2007    18:06:58 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
I'll be back in 2 minutes
10/11/2007    18:07:33 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
what was it that happened there Midori? I didn't quite get it.
10/11/2007    18:08:11 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I tried to drag and drop, but the only thing Obo-edit would do is add
another parent. No option to add chile, move, or merge.
10/11/2007    18:08:26 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
oh
10/11/2007    18:08:27 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
(add child ... we're not in alabama ;) )
10/11/2007    18:08:36 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
:)
10/11/2007    18:08:47 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
so you clicked and dragged?
10/11/2007    18:08:54 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
and there was a menu?
10/11/2007    18:09:08 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
did you hold a hotkey then drag?
10/11/2007    18:09:12 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
yes, but only the menu to select the relationship type
10/11/2007    18:09:16 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
It keeps behaving as if she has a hotkey down even when she
doesn't
10/11/2007    18:09:21 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
oh
oh
10/18/2007    18:22:28 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
10/11/2007    18:09:26 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I have only tried 1.101
that's right
10/18/2007    18:22:29 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
10/11/2007    18:09:34 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
yes! (to John's question)
gunge under the keyboard?
10/18/2007    18:22:30 PM    from hurdle to All Participants:
10/11/2007    18:09:40 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
Will elaborate: the searches I most do is to s set where I load6
:-)
ontologies, including the GO, MA, EC, CE, EMAP, and one of my own (ATTC
10/11/2007    18:09:41 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
lines)
I suspect that the drag and drop system is interacting with my
10/18/2007    18:22:38 PM    from hurdle to All Participants:
"what key is down" detector in an awful way.
I don't havethe probelm in 1.101
10/11/2007    18:09:49 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:22:59 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Also, I've only had shift+hotkey work once, in a dozen or more tries.
Hmm... I'm going to run and look something up quickly. I'll be
10/11/2007    18:09:49 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
right back -
ooooooo
10/18/2007    18:23:26 PM    from hurdle to All Participants:
10/11/2007    18:10:10 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
sorry about the typing; something is not quite write with my keyboard
it doen't seem to notice when I let go of the key
skin today
10/11/2007    18:10:17 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:23:31 PM    from hurdle to All Participants:
Hmm... what to do...
right
10/11/2007    18:10:25 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:23:37 PM    from hurdle to All Participants:
Okay, what about this -
or my breain
10/11/2007    18:10:39 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:23:40 PM    from hurdle to All Participants:
I would think gunge would also affect 1.101 ;)
brain
10/11/2007    18:10:44 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:24:50 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
true
Aha!
10/11/2007    18:10:55 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:25:09 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
What if I add a little control to the top of the ontology editor
I see evidence that OBO-Edit might be thoughtfully caching the
panel that lets you pick what the drag operation means -
results of every single query.
10/11/2007    18:11:03 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:25:20 PM    from hurdle to All Participants:
I loves me some hotkeys ...
ahh
10/11/2007    18:11:16 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:25:23 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
Hold on, Midori, I'm getting there -
that is very thoughtful
10/11/2007    18:11:34 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:25:37 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
It might be a drop down that contains "General", "Add parent",  
Especially if the thought is "let's uselessly waste memory".
"Add child", and all the other hotkeyed drag operations.
10/18/2007    18:25:56 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    18:11:45 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
I'll do some more experiments to confirm this, but turning this  
When you drag and drop, it does what's in the dropdown...
off might be the solution.
10/11/2007    18:11:52 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:27:42 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
and the hotkeys control what appears in that dropdown.
Anyway, shall we disperse?
10/11/2007    18:11:55 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:28:03 PM    from hurdle to All Participants:
hmmm .... I guess I'd have to try it. It does sound better than drilling
I'm melting....
through the menus every time I want to do a link operation.
10/18/2007    18:28:03 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
10/11/2007    18:12:18 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
and ride off into the sunset?
Wait, that last bit got me confused. Example?
10/18/2007    18:28:52 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/11/2007    18:12:23 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Farewell my little corn flowers, I got other towns to save.
That way there isn't a need to solve this tricky timing problem
10/18/2007    18:28:57 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
between the keyboard manager and the drag and drop system.
See you at office hours.
10/11/2007    18:12:25 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:29:00 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
For example -
byeeeeee
10/11/2007    18:12:57 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:29:01 PM    from hurdle to All Participants:
When you press "P" while the ontology editor panel is focused,
happy trails
the dropdown immediately switches to "Add parent"
10/18/2007    18:29:06 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
10/11/2007    18:13:25 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
By magic? Do I have to choose anything from the dropdown?
10/11/2007    18:13:41 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
'cos what I love so much about hotkeys is that it saves a lot of mousing
10/11/2007    18:13:49 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
does it do it when you are typing in the text editor?
10/11/2007    18:14:08 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
No. You can use the mouse if you want to, but you can also use
hotkeys to switch the contents of this hypothetical dropdown.
10/11/2007    18:14:22 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
brilliant.
10/11/2007    18:14:27 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
It won't interact with any text editing component, it'll only
work when the ontology editor panel is focused.
10/11/2007    18:14:34 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
oh righty
10/11/2007    18:14:36 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
sounds good
10/11/2007    18:14:40 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
what I want is to add parents, children, etc. with minimal mousage.
10/11/2007    18:14:43 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
(The meaning of "focused" is complex, but "recently clicked" is
a decent synonym)
10/11/2007    18:14:51 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
yes that sounds good
10/11/2007    18:15:00 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
if you are making that little menu
10/11/2007    18:15:09 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
could you possibly write the shortcuts in?
10/11/2007    18:15:13 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I can never remember them
10/11/2007    18:15:28 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Totally. Also, I'm using dropdown to mean "combo box", not
"pulldown menu"
10/11/2007    18:15:29 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
for me they're muscle memory by now! ;)
10/11/2007    18:15:49 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
could you also make one for ad is_a child and one for add part_of child?
10/11/2007    18:16:21 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Yes, but -
10/11/2007    18:16:58 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
How should I do that? Since there could be any number of
relationship types in an ontology, how do I know what hotkey to assign
to which relationship type?
10/11/2007    18:17:04 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
true
10/11/2007    18:17:08 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Here's a possibility!
10/11/2007    18:17:22 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
What if the hotkeys only work once the "types" popup menu
appears.
10/11/2007    18:17:46 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
that would be fine by me
10/11/2007    18:17:46 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Then, I can automatically make up hotkeys based on a
relationship types
10/11/2007    18:17:51 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
's position in the list
10/11/2007    18:18:08 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
having trouble visualizing again ... remind me what makes this popup
appear ...
10/11/2007    18:18:45 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
This is the popup menu that appears when you hold down P and
drag and drop (in a perfect world)
10/11/2007    18:19:05 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
It contains a list of all the available relationship types
10/11/2007    18:19:20 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
ok, I get it
10/11/2007    18:19:27 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
thanks, and sounds fine
10/11/2007    18:19:45 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
yes sounds good
10/11/2007    18:19:54 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Question -
10/11/2007    18:20:17 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
This could be very confusing to new users. Should we make the
dropdown of drag and drop operations always switch back to "default"
once you've completed a drag and drop?
10/11/2007    18:20:35 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
that would be ok, I think
10/11/2007    18:20:44 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I tend to do a lot of the same operation
10/11/2007    18:20:52 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
so I might prefer it to stay where I put it
10/11/2007    18:21:04 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
I'll make it configurable then. Savvy gals like you can put it
in "sticky" mode.
10/11/2007    18:21:11 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
gosh
10/11/2007    18:21:15 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
sounds clever
10/11/2007    18:21:17 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
thanks
10/11/2007    18:21:29 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
yay!
10/11/2007    18:21:38 PM    from erika to All Participants:
Guys, I
think I need to go
10/11/2007    18:21:39 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
david will be impressed at that. It's one of the things that will help
in content meetings
10/11/2007    18:21:45 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
bye erika
10/11/2007    18:21:47 PM    from erika to All Participants:
Thanks  
Thanks  
John!
for the chat
10/18/2007    18:29:12 PM    from Erika to All Participants:
10/11/2007    18:21:50 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Bye all!
Bye erika.
 
10/11/2007    18:21:50 PM    from erika to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:29:13 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
bye
bum-ba-dee-da ...
10/11/2007    18:21:55 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:29:23 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
bye, erika
Can a non-crashed participant distribute the minutes?
10/11/2007    18:22:05 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:29:35 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
are we finished that topic?
ok
10/11/2007    18:22:10 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
10/18/2007    18:29:40 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
I found an exciting bug
10/11/2007    18:22:13 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
John - I have one other very small thing.
10/11/2007    18:22:17 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
carry on
10/11/2007    18:22:23 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
Is there a keyboard shortcut for commit? (i.e. when autocommit is off)
10/11/2007    18:22:33 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Ctrl+Enter should do it.
10/11/2007    18:22:44 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
it's ctrl-enter in 1.x, but that didn't work today in b15
10/11/2007    18:22:50 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
bug report time, then
10/11/2007    18:23:00 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
ok, Jen, I'll put in a bug report, so over to you
10/11/2007    18:23:03 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
ta
10/11/2007    18:23:18 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
John, you remember that save bug?
10/11/2007    18:23:37 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
Well the verification thing does something very similar in windows
10/11/2007    18:24:00 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
the bug that you fixed in Princeton
10/11/2007    18:24:07 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Which save bug are we talking about?
10/11/2007    18:24:17 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
the one that you fixed when you borrowed my latop
10/11/2007    18:24:24 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
the one that made the programme hang
10/11/2007    18:24:30 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
search
10/11/2007    18:24:31 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
sorry
10/11/2007    18:24:35 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
brain failure
10/11/2007    18:24:36 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
That's happening again?
10/11/2007    18:24:43 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
in the verification check
10/11/2007    18:24:47 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I did the verify view
10/11/2007    18:24:52 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
and I did a manual check
10/11/2007    18:24:55 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
and it takes ages
10/11/2007    18:25:01 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
and the processor maxes out
10/11/2007    18:25:17 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
and I can't even quit with the task manager
10/11/2007    18:25:24 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
very similar
10/11/2007    18:25:35 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Does this happen even if you turn off spell checking?
10/11/2007    18:25:46 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
how do I do that?
10/11/2007    18:26:09 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
You have to hit the "config' button for every text check, and
choose the option to disable spell checking for that check.
10/11/2007    18:26:27 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I'll try that
10/11/2007    18:26:40 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
if the bug is still there I may be gone for some time
10/11/2007    18:27:04 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
It's almost time to go anyway.
10/11/2007    18:27:17 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Can you run the check after this and send a summary in the bug
report?
10/11/2007    18:27:27 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
it worked
10/11/2007    18:27:35 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
So it's the spell checker.
10/11/2007    18:27:37 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Oy.
10/11/2007    18:27:43 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
turning off spell check solved the problem
10/11/2007    18:27:45 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
thanks
10/11/2007    18:27:52 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
I guess I need to research other spell checking libraries. That
one is too frigging slow.
10/11/2007    18:28:11 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
good to have a workaround anyway
10/11/2007    18:28:14 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
:-)
10/11/2007    18:28:21 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
It's time to depart, I think.
10/11/2007    18:28:30 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
thanks, bye then
10/11/2007    18:28:39 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Chris is here, I notice. Has he been saying anything?
10/11/2007    18:28:53 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
If he has, I haven't seen it.
10/11/2007    18:29:16 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
nor have I
10/11/2007    18:29:16 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
nope
10/11/2007    18:29:23 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Maybe he's just recording his own transcript.
10/11/2007    18:29:25 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Bye all.
Bye all.
10/18/2007    18:29:42 PM    from melissaH to All Participants:
10/11/2007    18:29:27 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
bye!
10/18/2007    18:29:50 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
bye
bye
10/11/2007    18:29:35 PM    from chris to All Attendees:
wow how
did you make my webex screen pop up?
10/11/2007    18:29:39 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Midori, can you send out a transcript? You didn't crash today.
10/11/2007    18:29:53 PM    from chris to All Attendees:
just
lurking, nothing to add this session
10/11/2007    18:29:58 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
ok :)
10/11/2007    18:30:03 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
(to both ...)
10/11/2007    18:30:13 PM    from chris to All Attendees:
bye!
10/11/2007    18:30:15 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Okay, farewell. I hearby end this meeting.


</pre>
</pre>

Revision as of 12:26, 5 August 2008

10/11/2007    17:28:42 PM    from Midori Harris to All Attendees:
hi Erika!
10/11/2007    17:28:51 PM    from erika to All Attendees:
	Hi 
Midori
10/11/2007    17:29:10 PM    from erika to All Attendees:
	How are 
you doing?
10/11/2007    17:29:32 PM    from Midori Harris to All Attendees:
Fine; how are you?
10/11/2007    17:29:37 PM    from erika to All Attendees:
	I am 
quite tired :-(
10/11/2007    17:29:52 PM    from erika to All Attendees:
	but 
happy because we have finished with the muscle meeting stuff
10/11/2007    17:29:59 PM    from Midori Harris to All Attendees:
that's great!!!
10/11/2007    17:30:08 PM    from Midori Harris to All Attendees:
(and a good reason to be tired)
10/11/2007    17:30:43 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Attendees:
hi
10/11/2007    17:30:43 PM    from erika to All Attendees:
	Ageda 
for today says that it is a very important meeting
10/11/2007    17:30:47 PM    from erika to All Attendees:
	Hi Jen
10/11/2007    17:31:01 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Attendees:
another really important one?
10/11/2007    17:31:07 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Attendees:
gosh
10/11/2007    17:31:56 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Attendees:
I love the new menu item called 'change inverse necessity to true'
10/11/2007    17:32:20 PM    from Midori Harris to All Attendees:
there's no accounting for taste ;)
10/11/2007    17:32:25 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Attendees:
Is that a psychological phenomenon?
10/11/2007    17:32:27 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Attendees:
:-)
10/11/2007    17:32:35 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Attendees:
what can it mean?
10/11/2007    17:33:19 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
Hi, all.
10/11/2007    17:33:22 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
hi
10/11/2007    17:33:31 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
how's it going?
10/11/2007    17:33:47 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Our little boy didn't wake up until 7:50 this morning. It felt 
like a vacation.
10/11/2007    17:33:52 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
wow!
10/11/2007    17:34:08 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
note to self: do not have children
10/11/2007    17:34:09 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
parenthood makes ya easy to please
10/11/2007    17:34:38 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	It's true - I'll do any old kind of heroin now. I don't need any 
fancy-schmancy turkish white these days.
10/11/2007    17:35:15 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
would that explain the menu option  'change inverse necessity to true'?
10/11/2007    17:35:27 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
It intrigues me
10/11/2007    17:35:47 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	No, that refers to an obscure OBO 1.0 feature that we have never 
really used. I'm going to ask Chris to deprecate it in OBO 1.3
10/11/2007    17:35:54 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
oh ok
10/11/2007    17:36:02 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I thought it was *the future*
10/11/2007    17:36:07 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
shame
10/11/2007    17:36:09 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I think we should deprecate all the necessity and cardinality 
features of OBO
10/11/2007    17:36:15 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
okey dokey
10/11/2007    17:36:25 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I wont ask what they are then
10/11/2007    17:36:30 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
that's out of my league anyway
10/11/2007    17:36:33 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	To answer your question about the graph viz viewer...
10/11/2007    17:36:58 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
suspense
10/11/2007    17:37:11 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I removed it because it wasn't working anyway - changes I made 
in the selection system for OBO-Edit 2.0 had rendered it useless, and 
starting it up would only do one thing: hose your config files.
10/11/2007    17:37:18 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I thought it safer to remove it entirely.
10/11/2007    17:37:25 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
drat.
10/11/2007    17:37:26 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
oh dear
10/11/2007    17:37:43 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
so we have to stick with 1.101 until we can use the graph editor?
10/11/2007    17:37:46 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
reasonable course of action, but we miss it
10/11/2007    17:38:24 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Well, the graph viz viewer is more like the Graph DAG Viewer 
than the Graph Editor...
10/11/2007    17:38:32 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I'll probably keep 1.101 around for when I want graphics to put in talks 
& papers ...
10/11/2007    17:38:52 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I might work up to the graph DAG viewer then
10/11/2007    17:39:02 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
yes, good idea Midori
10/11/2007    17:39:05 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	What's lacking the graph dag viewer that the graphviz component 
has? Maybe I can just add it to the OBO-Edit 2.0 graphing stuff?
10/11/2007    17:39:18 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	("lacking in" I meant)
10/11/2007    17:39:45 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I'm still in training for the graph DAG viewer. I made it to 20 minutes 
use today before it hosed my brain. I'm going to test it on david 
tomorrow
10/11/2007    17:40:00 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I think it just takes brain training
10/11/2007    17:40:12 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I had a question about that, Jen...
10/11/2007    17:40:16 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
yes?
10/11/2007    17:40:31 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
for me it's mainly the appearance, including that it can be configured 
separately from the main gui
10/11/2007    17:40:42 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
yes that's also inportant
10/11/2007    17:41:04 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Or maybe it's Midori. Anyway, someone said that when they 
clicked a term in the ontology editor panel, they wanted the whole path 
to expand in the graph editor.
10/11/2007    17:41:15 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
that was Jen
10/11/2007    17:41:15 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
that was me
10/11/2007    17:41:18 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
:-)
10/11/2007    17:41:25 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
see, we've got our story straight!
10/11/2007    17:41:34 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
true!
10/11/2007    17:41:40 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	It's quite easy for me to add that, but I wanted to make sure 
that everyone wants it to behave this way. If there's disagreement, I'll 
make it configurable.
10/11/2007    17:41:56 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I'm not quite sure yet as I haven't used it much
10/11/2007    17:42:02 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
same here
10/11/2007    17:42:02 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
would configurable be hard?
10/11/2007    17:42:17 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
it seems like this may be the new big thing and configurable is always 
good
10/11/2007    17:42:20 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	It would probably add 10 minutes to this 30 minute task.
10/11/2007    17:42:27 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
which one?
10/11/2007    17:42:44 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Configurability would add 10 minutes to the 30 minute task of 
automatic path expansion
10/11/2007    17:42:54 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
oh well that would be very very good then
10/11/2007    17:42:56 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
:-)
10/11/2007    17:42:59 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
thank you
10/11/2007    17:43:19 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
we're a little sparsely populated today aren't we?
10/11/2007    17:43:33 PM    from erika to All Attendees:
	yes, we 
are
10/11/2007    17:43:47 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I've just forwarded the invite to Harold, cos he's reported a search bug
10/11/2007    17:43:47 PM    from erika to All Participants:
	yes, we 
are
10/11/2007    17:43:52 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
is it just general chit chat today or is there excitement to be had?
10/11/2007    17:44:19 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Here we go.
10/11/2007    17:44:26 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
did you get lost?
10/11/2007    17:44:27 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I got dumped about a minute ago.
10/11/2007    17:44:37 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Anyway, I was saying -
10/11/2007    17:44:39 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
... and Karen E has just mailed a question to the wg list
10/11/2007    17:45:06 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I was just asking if there is anything important today as I think Erika 
is double booked and might appreciate being elsewhere if she would not 
be missing anything
10/11/2007    17:45:22 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Just one thing, I guess -
10/11/2007    17:45:37 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
yes?
10/11/2007    17:45:47 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	On the developers list, I got 2 votes for the massive 
rearrangement of OBO-Edit that I suggested on the Wiki.
10/11/2007    17:45:59 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I didn't really know enought to comment
10/11/2007    17:46:02 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	That's enough for me to act, so last night I started taking 
everything apart.
10/11/2007    17:46:07 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
oh good plan
10/11/2007    17:46:20 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	The short version is that things that have worked for a long, 
long time might start behaving weirdly. Keep an eye out.
10/11/2007    17:46:28 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I go neutral & quiet when talk turns to code innards.
10/11/2007    17:46:51 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
we'll keep an eye out
10/11/2007    17:46:54 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I have been noticing weirdness ... but since before last night!
10/11/2007    17:47:06 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
Are we gonna talk bugs today?
10/11/2007    17:47:16 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I think so - Erika, you're free to go.
10/11/2007    17:47:17 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
should we make another testing list for post-rearrangement?
10/11/2007    17:47:25 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
bye erika
10/11/2007    17:47:34 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I think everyone's pre-rearrangement list should still do fine.
10/11/2007    17:47:34 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
bye!
10/11/2007    17:47:37 PM    from erika to All Participants:
	I will 
stay
10/11/2007    17:47:41 PM    from erika to All Participants:
	for a 
while
10/11/2007    17:47:41 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
okay :-)
10/11/2007    17:47:54 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Back to what I was saying a second ago -
10/11/2007    17:48:10 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Jen, I saw your nice email about the new link expander popup in 
the graph viewer. that was one of two possible interfaces I thought of, 
and I chose the easier one.
10/11/2007    17:48:19 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
it rocks
10/11/2007    17:48:35 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
perfect :-)
10/11/2007    17:48:50 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	The other possibility was to list the links in a table where you 
could click the column headers and sort by term name or relationship 
type id (like in the search results panel)
10/11/2007    17:49:05 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Would you like to see that kind of interface, or is the current 
thing good enough?
10/11/2007    17:49:26 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I think that if there were enough that we'd need such complication then 
I'd just use the ontology editor panel
10/11/2007    17:49:27 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
Hi Karen!
10/11/2007    17:49:30 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
to seletc the child
10/11/2007    17:49:36 PM    from karen Eilbeck to All Participants:
hi
10/11/2007    17:49:54 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I think the current thing is great
10/11/2007    17:50:04 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Excellent!
10/11/2007    17:50:08 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Hi, Karen.
10/11/2007    17:50:20 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I imagine you've logged on to get some love for your filtering 
question.
10/11/2007    17:50:30 PM    from karen Eilbeck to All Participants:
absolutely
10/11/2007    17:50:35 PM    from karen Eilbeck to All Participants:
I need love
10/11/2007    17:50:43 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
(now he reads minds ... or emails)
10/11/2007    17:51:02 PM    from karen Eilbeck to All Participants:
Actually its really for colin batchellor who needs it more than me.
10/11/2007    17:51:04 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	There are two ways of handling this, and both involve global 
filtering.
10/11/2007    17:51:28 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	You could either add a global link filter that says "hide all 
disjoint_from links"
10/11/2007    17:51:48 PM    from karen Eilbeck to All Participants:
would this hid the disjoint from children>
10/11/2007    17:52:04 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Or you can take the more general approach (like ZFIN does) and 
add a global link filter that says "hide all non-transitive links"
10/11/2007    17:52:45 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	It would hide the disjoint_from children under parents to which 
a term has a disjoint_from relationship./
10/11/2007    17:52:53 PM    from karen Eilbeck to All Participants:
OK. I'll try this and get back to you . Thanks for letting me interupt 
your session.
10/11/2007    17:53:00 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Good luck!
10/11/2007    17:53:15 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Okay, who wants to lay some bugs on me?
10/11/2007    17:53:24 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
me! me!
10/11/2007    17:53:27 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I have a question:
10/11/2007    17:53:42 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
What do you want us to do when a supposedly fixed bug turns out not to 
be fixed?
10/11/2007    17:53:52 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
New SF item or reopen the old one?
10/11/2007    17:54:06 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Reopen the bug report, I think. That way the old info is 
available.
10/11/2007    17:54:14 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	What's still broken?
10/11/2007    17:54:14 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
ok, here I go!
10/11/2007    17:54:30 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
My drag-n-drop is still getting "stuck".
10/11/2007    17:54:59 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
that would sound really funny out of context
10/11/2007    17:55:21 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
<giggle> anyway ... Have you reproduced this, or do you want me to show 
you?
10/11/2007    17:55:22 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Does this happen no matter what you drag and drop?
10/11/2007    17:55:42 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Maybe you're doing something I didn't try -
10/11/2007    17:55:49 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Anyway, you should probably demo it.
10/11/2007    17:55:54 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I tihnk so ... I have one or two drag/drops- work, and ten I can only do 
the same kind of operation as the one(s) that worked.
10/11/2007    17:56:35 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
ok, I"ve got beta15 running, with GO loaded, so I'm ready to share.
10/11/2007    17:57:18 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
do you see my obo-edit?
10/11/2007    17:57:31 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I do now.
10/11/2007    17:57:35 PM    from erika to All Participants:
	no
10/11/2007    17:57:37 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	You'll have to do this quite slowly
10/11/2007    17:57:53 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
ok, trying again ...
10/11/2007    17:58:32 PM    from erika to All Participants:
	I can 
see oboedit
10/11/2007    17:59:12 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
it's gone
10/11/2007    17:59:16 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
hmm, of course with John watching it works ...
10/11/2007    17:59:30 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
maybe you coudl record it?
10/11/2007    17:59:40 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
It seems I can type in the chat window OR you can see my o-e
10/11/2007    17:59:48 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I think I'm going to need a step-by-step script to reproduce 
this one
10/11/2007    17:59:50 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
yes that's a mac thing
10/11/2007    18:00:02 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I'm sure I know what *kind* of thing is happening, but I need to 
make it happen myself to fix it.
10/11/2007    18:00:07 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
anyway, I"m going to try using hotkeys, because there *may* be a 
connection.
10/11/2007    18:00:17 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I'll also send gory details  ...
10/11/2007    18:01:15 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
GOT IT!
10/11/2007    18:01:22 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	So what happened?
10/11/2007    18:01:22 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I saw it too
10/11/2007    18:01:37 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I couldn't really tell what was going on
10/11/2007    18:01:43 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Was it related to hotkeys?
10/11/2007    18:01:44 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
OK, did you see two drags, both with 'add parent' in the popup?
10/11/2007    18:01:52 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	YEs.
10/11/2007    18:02:26 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
Yes, there seems to be a hotkey link -- I held down the 'p' key the 
first time, but NOT the second.
10/11/2007    18:02:48 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Hmm... can you include all this info on the bug report?
10/11/2007    18:02:53 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
Another thing about the hotkeys - I can't get them to work consistently. 
10/11/2007    18:03:02 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	They won't work once you're dragging.
10/11/2007    18:03:05 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
There seems to be improvement, because before they didn't work at all 
and now they work sometimes, but it's not reliable.
10/11/2007    18:03:28 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	The no-hotkeys-while-dragging thing is, I'm afraid, unsolvable.
10/11/2007    18:03:39 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	We'd have to use a different programming language to fix it.
10/11/2007    18:04:05 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
But are they supposed to work as in 1.x if I press the key first?
10/11/2007    18:04:21 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	If you press the key before you start dragging, yes.
10/11/2007    18:04:30 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
'cause at the moment I'm not sure it helps to push the key down first 
... I'll check again
10/11/2007    18:05:07 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
anyway, now my oboedit is stuck on 'add parent', so I'll have to restart 
it to get the other operations back.
10/11/2007    18:05:19 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Wait - what does that mean?
10/11/2007    18:05:42 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
"stuck" or "get the other operations back" upon restart?
10/11/2007    18:05:43 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	You can't select anything else from the drag and drop menu, or 
every time you drag anything it says "Add parent?"
10/11/2007    18:05:52 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
yep!
10/11/2007    18:06:05 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
watch (look ma, no hotkeys)
10/11/2007    18:06:39 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Now that's interesting!
10/11/2007    18:06:51 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Let me take a quick look at something -
10/11/2007    18:06:56 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
trust me, I just dragged, without holding any keys down
10/11/2007    18:06:58 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I'll be back in 2 minutes
10/11/2007    18:07:33 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
what was it that happened there Midori? I didn't quite get it. 
10/11/2007    18:08:11 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I tried to drag and drop, but the only thing Obo-edit would do is add 
another parent. No option to add chile, move, or merge.
10/11/2007    18:08:26 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
oh
10/11/2007    18:08:27 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
(add child ... we're not in alabama ;) )
10/11/2007    18:08:36 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
:)
10/11/2007    18:08:47 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
so you clicked and dragged?
10/11/2007    18:08:54 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
and there was a menu?
10/11/2007    18:09:08 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
did you hold a hotkey then drag?
10/11/2007    18:09:12 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
yes, but only the menu to select the relationship type
10/11/2007    18:09:16 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	It keeps behaving as if she has a hotkey down even when she 
doesn't
10/11/2007    18:09:21 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
oh
10/11/2007    18:09:26 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
that's right
10/11/2007    18:09:34 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
gunge under the keyboard?
10/11/2007    18:09:40 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
:-)
10/11/2007    18:09:41 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I suspect that the drag and drop system is interacting with my 
"what key is down" detector in an awful way.
10/11/2007    18:09:49 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
Also, I've only had shift+hotkey work once, in a dozen or more tries.
10/11/2007    18:09:49 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
ooooooo
10/11/2007    18:10:10 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
it doen't seem to notice when I let go of the key
10/11/2007    18:10:17 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Hmm... what to do...
10/11/2007    18:10:25 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Okay, what about this -
10/11/2007    18:10:39 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I would think gunge would also affect 1.101 ;)
10/11/2007    18:10:44 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
true
10/11/2007    18:10:55 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	What if I add a little control to the top of the ontology editor 
panel that lets you pick what the drag operation means -
10/11/2007    18:11:03 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
I loves me some hotkeys ...
10/11/2007    18:11:16 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Hold on, Midori, I'm getting there -
10/11/2007    18:11:34 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	It might be a drop down that contains "General", "Add parent", 
"Add child", and all the other hotkeyed drag operations.
10/11/2007    18:11:45 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	When you drag and drop, it does what's in the dropdown...
10/11/2007    18:11:52 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	and the hotkeys control what appears in that dropdown.
10/11/2007    18:11:55 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
hmmm .... I guess I'd have to try it. It does sound better than drilling 
through the menus every time I want to do a link operation.
10/11/2007    18:12:18 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
Wait, that last bit got me confused. Example?
10/11/2007    18:12:23 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	That way there isn't a need to solve this tricky timing problem 
between the keyboard manager and the drag and drop system.
10/11/2007    18:12:25 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	For example -
10/11/2007    18:12:57 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	When you press "P" while the ontology editor panel is focused, 
the dropdown immediately switches to "Add parent"
10/11/2007    18:13:25 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
By magic? Do I have to choose anything from the dropdown?
10/11/2007    18:13:41 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
'cos what I love so much about hotkeys is that it saves a lot of mousing
10/11/2007    18:13:49 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
does it do it when you are typing in the text editor?
10/11/2007    18:14:08 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	No. You can use the mouse if you want to, but you can also use 
hotkeys to switch the contents of this hypothetical dropdown.
10/11/2007    18:14:22 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
brilliant.
10/11/2007    18:14:27 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	It won't interact with any text editing component, it'll only 
work when the ontology editor panel is focused.
10/11/2007    18:14:34 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
oh righty
10/11/2007    18:14:36 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
sounds good
10/11/2007    18:14:40 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
what I want is to add parents, children, etc. with minimal mousage.
10/11/2007    18:14:43 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	(The meaning of "focused" is complex, but "recently clicked" is 
a decent synonym)
10/11/2007    18:14:51 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
yes that sounds good
10/11/2007    18:15:00 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
if you are making that little menu
10/11/2007    18:15:09 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
could you possibly write the shortcuts in?
10/11/2007    18:15:13 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I can never remember them
10/11/2007    18:15:28 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Totally. Also, I'm using dropdown to mean "combo box", not 
"pulldown menu"
10/11/2007    18:15:29 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
for me they're muscle memory by now! ;)
10/11/2007    18:15:49 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
could you also make one for ad is_a child and one for add part_of child?
10/11/2007    18:16:21 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Yes, but -
10/11/2007    18:16:58 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	How should I do that? Since there could be any number of 
relationship types in an ontology, how do I know what hotkey to assign 
to which relationship type?
10/11/2007    18:17:04 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
true
10/11/2007    18:17:08 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Here's a possibility!
10/11/2007    18:17:22 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	What if the hotkeys only work once the "types" popup menu 
appears.
10/11/2007    18:17:46 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
that would be fine by me
10/11/2007    18:17:46 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Then, I can automatically make up hotkeys based on a 
relationship types
10/11/2007    18:17:51 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	's position in the list
10/11/2007    18:18:08 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
having trouble visualizing again ... remind me what makes this popup 
appear ...
10/11/2007    18:18:45 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	This is the popup menu that appears when you hold down P and 
drag and drop (in a perfect world)
10/11/2007    18:19:05 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	It contains a list of all the available relationship types
10/11/2007    18:19:20 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
ok, I get it
10/11/2007    18:19:27 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
thanks, and sounds fine
10/11/2007    18:19:45 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
yes sounds good
10/11/2007    18:19:54 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Question -
10/11/2007    18:20:17 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	This could be very confusing to new users. Should we make the 
dropdown of drag and drop operations always switch back to "default" 
once you've completed a drag and drop?
10/11/2007    18:20:35 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
that would be ok, I think
10/11/2007    18:20:44 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I tend to do a lot of the same operation
10/11/2007    18:20:52 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
so I might prefer it to stay where I put it
10/11/2007    18:21:04 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I'll make it configurable then. Savvy gals like you can put it 
in "sticky" mode.
10/11/2007    18:21:11 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
gosh
10/11/2007    18:21:15 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
sounds clever
10/11/2007    18:21:17 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
thanks
10/11/2007    18:21:29 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
yay!
10/11/2007    18:21:38 PM    from erika to All Participants:
	Guys, I 
think I need to go
10/11/2007    18:21:39 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
david will be impressed at that. It's one of the things that will help 
in content meetings
10/11/2007    18:21:45 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
bye erika
10/11/2007    18:21:47 PM    from erika to All Participants:
	Thanks 
for the chat
10/11/2007    18:21:50 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Bye erika.
10/11/2007    18:21:50 PM    from erika to All Participants:
	bye
10/11/2007    18:21:55 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
bye, erika
10/11/2007    18:22:05 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
are we finished that topic?
10/11/2007    18:22:10 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I found an exciting bug
10/11/2007    18:22:13 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
John - I have one other very small thing.
10/11/2007    18:22:17 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
carry on
10/11/2007    18:22:23 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
Is there a keyboard shortcut for commit? (i.e. when autocommit is off)
10/11/2007    18:22:33 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Ctrl+Enter should do it.
10/11/2007    18:22:44 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
it's ctrl-enter in 1.x, but that didn't work today in b15
10/11/2007    18:22:50 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
bug report time, then
10/11/2007    18:23:00 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
ok, Jen, I'll put in a bug report, so over to you
10/11/2007    18:23:03 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
ta
10/11/2007    18:23:18 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
John, you remember that save bug?
10/11/2007    18:23:37 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
Well the verification thing does something very similar in windows
10/11/2007    18:24:00 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
the bug that you fixed in Princeton
10/11/2007    18:24:07 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Which save bug are we talking about?
10/11/2007    18:24:17 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
the one that you fixed when you borrowed my latop
10/11/2007    18:24:24 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
the one that made the programme hang
10/11/2007    18:24:30 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
search
10/11/2007    18:24:31 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
sorry
10/11/2007    18:24:35 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
brain failure
10/11/2007    18:24:36 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	That's happening again?
10/11/2007    18:24:43 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
in the verification check
10/11/2007    18:24:47 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I did the verify view
10/11/2007    18:24:52 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
	 
and I did a manual check
10/11/2007    18:24:55 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
and it takes ages
10/11/2007    18:25:01 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
and the processor maxes out
10/11/2007    18:25:17 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
and I can't even quit with the task manager
10/11/2007    18:25:24 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
very similar
10/11/2007    18:25:35 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Does this happen even if you turn off spell checking?
10/11/2007    18:25:46 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
how do I do that?
10/11/2007    18:26:09 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	You have to hit the "config' button for every text check, and 
choose the option to disable spell checking for that check.
10/11/2007    18:26:27 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
I'll try that
10/11/2007    18:26:40 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
if the bug is still there I may be gone for some time
10/11/2007    18:27:04 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	It's almost time to go anyway.
10/11/2007    18:27:17 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Can you run the check after this and send a summary in the bug 
report?
10/11/2007    18:27:27 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
it worked
10/11/2007    18:27:35 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	So it's the spell checker.
10/11/2007    18:27:37 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Oy.
10/11/2007    18:27:43 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
turning off spell check solved the problem
10/11/2007    18:27:45 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
thanks
10/11/2007    18:27:52 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	I guess I need to research other spell checking libraries. That 
one is too frigging slow.
10/11/2007    18:28:11 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
good to have a workaround anyway
10/11/2007    18:28:14 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
:-)
10/11/2007    18:28:21 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	It's time to depart, I think.
10/11/2007    18:28:30 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
thanks, bye then
10/11/2007    18:28:39 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Chris is here, I notice. Has he been saying anything?
10/11/2007    18:28:53 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	If he has, I haven't seen it.
10/11/2007    18:29:16 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
nor have I
10/11/2007    18:29:16 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
nope
10/11/2007    18:29:23 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Maybe he's just recording his own transcript.
10/11/2007    18:29:25 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Bye all.
10/11/2007    18:29:27 PM    from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
bye
10/11/2007    18:29:35 PM    from chris to All Attendees:
	wow how 
did you make my webex screen pop up?
10/11/2007    18:29:39 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Midori, can you send out a transcript? You didn't crash today.
10/11/2007    18:29:53 PM    from chris to All Attendees:
	just 
lurking, nothing to add this session
10/11/2007    18:29:58 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
ok :)
10/11/2007    18:30:03 PM    from Midori Harris to All Participants:
(to both ...)
10/11/2007    18:30:13 PM    from chris to All Attendees:
	bye!
10/11/2007    18:30:15 PM    from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
	Okay, farewell. I hearby end this meeting.