11/29/2007 17:32:33 PM from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
Hi, all. Sorry about the lateness. I thought today was Wednesday.
11/29/2007 17:32:34 PM from melissaH to All Attendees:
Hi there!
11/29/2007 17:32:45 PM from midori to All Participants:
Hi!
11/29/2007 17:32:54 PM from midori to All Participants:
Having fun with my bug reports?
11/29/2007 17:33:07 PM from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
Tons.
11/29/2007 17:33:22 PM from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
Thanks for all that testing. These are excellent bug reports.
11/29/2007 17:33:36 PM from midori to All Participants:
<takes a bow>
11/29/2007 17:33:45 PM from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
I hope to have a new version out tomorrow.
11/29/2007 17:34:04 PM from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
Can you see any icons in your OBO term panel at all, Midori?
11/29/2007 17:34:13 PM from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
And if so, what do they look like?
11/29/2007 17:34:18 PM from melissaH to All Attendees:
(delinquent here....)
11/29/2007 17:34:29 PM from midori to All Participants:
Did you send out the meeting invite? (I went straight to the go webex page.)
11/29/2007 17:34:44 PM from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
I did, but only via the mechanism that never works.
11/29/2007 17:34:50 PM from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
I'll try again...
11/29/2007 17:34:59 PM from midori to All Participants:
My term panel is fine ... it's the config manager that has the problem.
11/29/2007 17:35:35 PM from midori to All Participants:
I don't actually know how beta19 got the icons I usually use ... I could've sworn I had to delete .oboeditbeta to get it running.
11/29/2007 17:35:47 PM from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
When you increase the font, does the icon get bigger too (it should)? And does the icon look smoothe at its new size, or blocky?
11/29/2007 17:36:39 PM from midori to All Participants:
Anyway, I have icons, and Tim sees the little text-block defaults, and neither of us can get the built-in icons to appear in the config mgr when we click 'browse built-in icons'.
11/29/2007 17:36:59 PM from midori to All Participants:
haven't tried bigger font .. will do as soon as o-e starts up
11/29/2007 17:37:12 PM from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
Okay - it's relevant to the question of what's going on here.
11/29/2007 17:37:23 PM from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
Mel - can you browse the icons?
11/29/2007 17:38:44 PM from melissaH to All Attendees:
checking now, I think so.
11/29/2007 17:39:20 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
hi
11/29/2007 17:39:36 PM from melissaH to All Attendees:
nope
11/29/2007 17:39:42 PM from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
hi
11/29/2007 17:39:44 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
Where's Jennifer?
11/29/2007 17:39:51 PM from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
Hey folks.
11/29/2007 17:39:51 PM from melissaH to All Attendees:
but they look fine on my ontology editor panel
11/29/2007 17:41:24 PM from midori to All Participants:
OK ... icons look fine when I change font size. They don't seem to change size, they just keep looking the same, not pixely or anything.
11/29/2007 17:41:34 PM from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
!
11/29/2007 17:41:38 PM from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
That's not good.
11/29/2007 17:41:47 PM from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
Do you have the same icons in the Graph Editor?
11/29/2007 17:42:03 PM from midori to All Participants:
hang on ...
11/29/2007 17:42:42 PM from melissaH to All Attendees:
my graph editor is not working
11/29/2007 17:42:47 PM from melissaH to All Attendees:
nothing shows up
11/29/2007 17:43:41 PM from midori to All Participants:
Yes, sort of. I have the same shape icons in the graph editor, but not the same size. The is_a icon is bigger, but also stays the same size when I change font size.
11/29/2007 17:43:55 PM from midori to All Participants:
Two more things:
11/29/2007 17:44:06 PM from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
When you zoom into the graph editor, do the icons scale smoothly, or do they get pixellated?
11/29/2007 17:44:06 PM from midori to All Participants:
- The font in the graph editor stays the same size.
11/29/2007 17:44:34 PM from midori to All Participants:
- The line spacing isn't quite changing in sync with the font size.
11/29/2007 17:44:44 PM from midori to All Participants:
... in the ontology editor, that is.
11/29/2007 17:45:51 PM from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
sorry I'm late
11/29/2007 17:46:00 PM from midori to All Participants:
graph ed icons & zoom: they get bigger, but don't go pixely.
11/29/2007 17:46:11 PM from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
Okay, that's good at least...
11/29/2007 17:46:42 PM from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
Is there anyone who can use the "browse icons" feature in the new OBO-Edit release?
11/29/2007 17:46:49 PM from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
(In the configuration panel)
11/29/2007 17:46:57 PM from midori to All Participants:
(incidentally ... I'm still having a hell of a time controlling whether I'm zooming or dragging in the graph ed)
11/29/2007 17:48:32 PM from midori to All Participants:
Hi Tanya! We're talking about icon brovsing, or lack thereof, in beta19.
11/29/2007 17:49:01 PM from melissaH to All Attendees:
I also can't get anything to come up in the graphviz viewer or graph DAG viewer
11/29/2007 17:49:05 PM from John Day-Richter to All Attendees:
I'm getting no responses - are people trying it, or does it not work?
11/29/2007 17:49:19 PM from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
ah, thanks Midori
11/29/2007 17:49:28 PM from melissaH to All Attendees:
(not working for me -nothing happens when I click the browse icons button
11/29/2007 17:49:44 PM from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
Melissa- I think you need to change to All Participants
11/29/2007 17:50:12 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
It's odd that icon browsing isn't working for you guys, because if you can see the icons at all, it means that the browsing feature should work without a hitch.
11/29/2007 17:51:28 PM from melissaH to All Participants:
my graph editor is not working,
I also can't get anything to come up in the graphviz viewer or graph DAG viewer. icon browsing not working for me -nothing happens when I click the browse icons button
11/29/2007 17:51:29 PM from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
I have to admit I don't know what icon browsing is.
11/29/2007 17:52:07 PM from midori to All Participants:
If you open the configuration manager, you should see a bok for 'relationship type icons'.
11/29/2007 17:52:12 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
When you bring up the configuration panel, make it really big so you can see the icon selection dealy.
11/29/2007 17:52:25 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
There's a "Browse built-in icons" button.
11/29/2007 17:52:34 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
It doesn't work for anyone but me, so far.
11/29/2007 17:52:55 PM from midori to All Participants:
Clicking it should bring up a little row of icons, but doesn't.
11/29/2007 17:53:20 PM from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
I can't find this in the configuration panel at all.
11/29/2007 17:53:44 PM from midori to All Participants:
It's under 'general GUI'
11/29/2007 17:53:52 PM from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
ound it
11/29/2007 17:54:45 PM from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
But clicking the "Browse built-in icons" button doesn't do anything.
11/29/2007 17:55:10 PM from midori to All Participants:
same here! that's what we've been going on about.
11/29/2007 17:55:21 PM from melissaH to All Participants:
This is how you normally fix your icons, or create new ones
11/29/2007 17:55:33 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
It doesn't do ANYTHING at all? It doesn't create a new empty window?
11/29/2007 17:55:40 PM from melissaH to All Participants:
nope
11/29/2007 17:55:43 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
!
11/29/2007 17:55:45 PM from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
no
11/29/2007 17:55:52 PM from midori to All Participants:
it turns blue briefly. that's all
11/29/2007 17:55:58 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
I need the log files of everyone who just tried this.
11/29/2007 17:55:59 PM from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
The button gets a blue outline.
11/29/2007 17:56:19 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
i'm trying to find this browse icons menu item
11/29/2007 17:56:20 PM from midori to All Participants:
there's a SF item open; I'll put my log there.
11/29/2007 17:56:39 PM from midori to All Participants:
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1838651&group_id=36855&atid=418257
11/29/2007 17:58:23 PM from John Day-Richter (privately):
Midori, can you do me a favor? Change to your OBO-Edit installation directory in a terminal window, and then run:
11/29/2007 17:58:35 PM from John Day-Richter (privately):
jar tf runtime/oboedit.jar > oboedit_jar_contents.txt
11/29/2007 17:58:45 PM from John Day-Richter (privately):
and then send me that text file
11/29/2007 17:59:22 PM from midori to All Participants:
on the way, from my gmail ...
11/29/2007 17:59:34 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
oh, found it!
11/29/2007 17:59:41 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
it works for me. i can see the icons.
11/29/2007 17:59:47 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Ha!
11/29/2007 17:59:54 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Nomi - are you running from Eclipse?
11/29/2007 18:00:07 PM from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
still hunting
11/29/2007 18:00:32 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
i actually just ran it from the command line
11/29/2007 18:00:36 PM from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
sent log by email
11/29/2007 18:00:40 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
i had to change the oboedit launch script to make it work
11/29/2007 18:00:47 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
it was looking in the wrong place for the jar.
11/29/2007 18:00:57 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
(i committed that change--hope it didn't break things for anyone else)
11/29/2007 18:01:15 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Does anyone have anything they want to talk about? Otherwise I'll jump right into the demos...
11/29/2007 18:01:18 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
it looked to me like the command-line setup hadn't fully been changed for obo-edit2
11/29/2007 18:01:25 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Nomi - probably not.
11/29/2007 18:01:30 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
yes, i have two things.
11/29/2007 18:01:37 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
first, is anyone else on a mac?
11/29/2007 18:01:42 PM from midori to All Participants:
me!
11/29/2007 18:01:42 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Yes
11/29/2007 18:01:43 PM from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
yes
11/29/2007 18:01:43 PM from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
found it
11/29/2007 18:01:47 PM from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
same behaviour as for others
11/29/2007 18:01:53 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
have you noticed that the mc makes a top-level menu for every application, such as obo-edit,
11/29/2007 18:01:58 PM from midori to All Participants:
Jen uses both Mac and PC ...
11/29/2007 18:02:06 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
which includes menu items such as "About" and "Quit" (command-Q)
11/29/2007 18:02:15 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
but they are not really hooked in to OBO-Edit
11/29/2007 18:02:36 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
so if you select quit (or command-q) from that top-level menu, OBO-Edit just instantly exits w/o asking you "Really quit?"
11/29/2007 18:02:37 PM from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
yes we discussed this before didn't we
11/29/2007 18:02:42 PM from midori to All Participants:
yes ... I often use command-Q to quit; never bother with the other bits
11/29/2007 18:02:48 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Nomi - I'm all over this already. The next version will handle this. Check out:
11/29/2007 18:02:49 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
did we? oops, maybe it was before i joined.
11/29/2007 18:02:50 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
http://simplericity.com/2007/10/02/1191336060000.html
11/29/2007 18:02:57 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
oh, how funny,
11/29/2007 18:03:03 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
that's exactly the package i just found
11/29/2007 18:03:11 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Great minds, etc
11/29/2007 18:03:14 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
and used it to make obo-edit override that about and quit.
11/29/2007 18:03:15 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
ok.
11/29/2007 18:03:24 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
did you already commit that, john?
11/29/2007 18:03:36 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Nomi - have you already written it? 'Cause I'll take your version - I haven't written anything yet.
11/29/2007 18:03:39 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
(btw, i think phenote should do the same thing)
11/29/2007 18:03:46 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
yes, i've already started writing it. not done yet, but it works.
11/29/2007 18:08:07 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
and we can slip in a new jar and userguide
11/29/2007 18:08:13 PM from midori to All Participants:
sorry, crashed.
11/29/2007 18:08:18 PM from midori to All Participants:
did I miss anything?
11/29/2007 18:08:52 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
The releases are really easy to do, it's just another Ant target, Nomi.
11/29/2007 18:09:19 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
I think we should work on getting you set up to do releases during this next week. That way this won't loom so large.
11/29/2007 18:09:31 PM from midori to All Participants:
Anyway, I haven't started testing anything new-to-me, such as the cross-product editor.
11/29/2007 18:09:35 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
ok.
11/29/2007 18:10:04 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
does the ant release also do the install4j stuff?
11/29/2007 18:10:09 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Yes.
11/29/2007 18:10:12 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
cool.
11/29/2007 18:10:26 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
I think we should just focus on the core of the application for testing. Anything marginal that doesn't work right can be exiled into a plugin at the last minute.
11/29/2007 18:10:56 PM from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
(My first-ever WenEx crash)
11/29/2007 18:11:03 PM from chris to All Participants:
regarding xps: at the very least the xp editing functionality from OE1.1 needs tested since this has been in production use for a while (SO etc). The newer fancier interfaces don't have to be in the first rel of OE2
11/29/2007 18:11:13 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Agreed
11/29/2007 18:11:19 PM from midori to All Participants:
ok
11/29/2007 18:11:33 PM from Karen E to All Participants:
I can do some xps testing
11/29/2007 18:11:38 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Hooray!
11/29/2007 18:11:40 PM from midori to All Participants:
(tho even the 1.1 xp editor is only marginally familiar)
11/29/2007 18:11:46 PM from midori to All Participants:
So thanks, Karen!
11/29/2007 18:11:47 PM from melissaH to All Participants:
am I the only one who still can't see anything in the graph dag viewer or graph editor? there is an old bug about this from b16 1820621
11/29/2007 18:11:56 PM from midori to All Participants:
mine are ok now
11/29/2007 18:12:09 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Mel - are you wiping out the right config directory?
11/29/2007 18:12:14 PM from melissaH to All Participants:
I too can text xps- had a question posted to all of you about differences in behavior between OE1 and 2
11/29/2007 18:12:25 PM from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
I can see stuff in the graph viewer.
11/29/2007 18:12:44 PM from midori to All Participants:
Melissa - saw that, but didn't know enough to try to answer!
11/29/2007 18:13:05 PM from melissaH to All Participants:
not sure john, but why do I need to do this (again?)
11/29/2007 18:13:36 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Good question:
11/29/2007 18:13:56 PM from chris to All Participants:
Meilissa - I'm due you an answer on that one
11/29/2007 18:14:06 PM from melissaH to All Participants:
ok thanks
11/29/2007 18:14:07 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
OBO-Edit writes the preferences files by using a built-in Java library that writes Java objects directly to XML format.
11/29/2007 18:14:32 PM from chris to All Participants:
we dont need to go into it now, maybe we could set up a separate webex to go over it?
11/29/2007 18:14:37 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
When the Java objects change significantly, the old config files cannot be used, or get misloaded in ways that are impossible to predict.
11/29/2007 18:14:53 PM from melissaH to All Participants:
oh ok, I'll just start over again then.
11/29/2007 18:15:22 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
(For example, a field that should never be null suddenly becomes null, because Java can't load the object correctly). It's much simpler to just delete the config directory than to write the acres of code I'd need to write to fix this for each beta release
11/29/2007 18:15:36 PM from melissaH to All Participants:
sounds good chris- and being able to use my grapheditor in OE2 will likely help my xp understanding too.
11/29/2007 18:16:29 PM from midori to All Participants:
would it be worthwhile for any of the rest of us to join in?
11/29/2007 18:17:34 PM from chris to All Participants:
probably yes
11/29/2007 18:17:45 PM from melissaH to All Participants:
hmmm deleting config.xml doesn't fix it.
11/29/2007 18:18:01 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Don't delete config.xml. Delete the whole .oboeditbeta directory
11/29/2007 18:18:11 PM from melissaH to All Participants:
oh, ok. here we go again....
11/29/2007 18:19:48 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
We only have 10 minutes left, so I think I should briefly demo some stuff...
11/29/2007 18:20:49 PM from melissaH to All Participants:
(still nothing in the grapheditor or graph dag viewer...)
11/29/2007 18:21:01 PM from melissaH to All Participants:
ok
11/29/2007 18:21:16 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Mel - let's do a private office hours some time tomorrow for this? Let's do a skype chat to arrange it this afternoon.
11/29/2007 18:21:24 PM from melissaH to All Participants:
ok
11/29/2007 18:21:25 PM from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
Sorry I'm late, our ISP fell over.
11/29/2007 18:21:45 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
First - now OBO-Edit is feature complete. I won't make any changes at all besides bug fixes. (I know I said that before, but I had to add new features for internal BBOP use, and then I thought I'd give you guys an interface for it)
11/29/2007 18:22:14 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
So here are the two things I want to demo - user configurable heat maps and SVG icons.
11/29/2007 18:22:35 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
OBO-Edit now uses scalable SVG icons. when it works properly, you get icons that can get really large.
11/29/2007 18:24:27 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
When you choose a font that can fit your screen, it doesn't look so messed up
11/29/2007 18:24:32 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
i didn't see the large icons, just really huge text
11/29/2007 18:24:42 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
There were big icons on the left.
11/29/2007 18:24:43 PM from midori to All Participants:
weird - I saw the icons
11/29/2007 18:24:55 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
maybe it's because i'm on my laptop and the screen is small. carry on.
11/29/2007 18:24:59 PM from midori to All Participants:
maybe they were cut off the edge of your screen?
11/29/2007 18:25:20 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
The last new feature is user-configurable heat maps.
11/29/2007 18:25:24 PM from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
I saw the icons too.
11/29/2007 18:25:34 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
You may have noticed that some OBO-Edit search criteria are numeric, not text based.
11/29/2007 18:25:56 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
You can use the configurable heat maps to create a graduated coloring based on numeric search criteria.
11/29/2007 18:26:03 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Like so:
11/29/2007 18:28:12 PM from Karen E to All Participants:
nice
11/29/2007 18:28:12 PM from midori to All Participants:
goodness me.
11/29/2007 18:28:25 PM from chris to All Participants:
cool!
11/29/2007 18:28:30 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
We only have 2 not so useful numeric search criteria right now, but you can hound my successor for more.
11/29/2007 18:28:44 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
very cool! i preferred the pink/red color scheme. the yellow/light blue was kind of insipid.
11/29/2007 18:28:51 PM from melissaH to All Participants:
very nice, can it search on type of parent?
11/29/2007 18:29:03 PM from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
The only difficulty here will be documenting how it is set up.
11/29/2007 18:29:08 PM from midori to All Participants:
might be very cool indeed combined with annotations in OBO ...
11/29/2007 18:29:13 PM from chris to All Participants:
it's easy to add gene product counts from the database
11/29/2007 18:29:21 PM from chris to All Participants:
or from a loaded association file
11/29/2007 18:29:25 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
In fact, we did this very thing for a recent meeting.
11/29/2007 18:29:38 PM from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
was that biocurators?
11/29/2007 18:29:47 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
NCBO SAB Meeting
11/29/2007 18:29:51 PM from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
ah
11/29/2007 18:29:59 PM from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
wondering who knows how to do it
11/29/2007 18:30:17 PM from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
Is there a candidate for successor yet?
11/29/2007 18:30:26 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
this fancy new stuff is not going to be easy to document in the updated user guide!
11/29/2007 18:30:45 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
i will definitely need some help from the expert users (e.g. jen)
11/29/2007 18:30:53 PM from midori to All Participants:
... and some of us don't sign off on releases until the user's guide is up to snuff ;)
11/29/2007 18:31:03 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Alex - We've interviewed some folks, but we haven't gotten to a point where it's worthwhile to involve the WG yet.
11/29/2007 18:31:12 PM from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
okay
11/29/2007 18:31:28 PM from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
glad to hear there are candidates
11/29/2007 18:31:35 PM from Tanya Berardini to All Participants:
(I'm back, other meeting ran short)
11/29/2007 18:31:40 PM from Karen E to All Participants:
I gotta go. John you are wonderful...BYEEEE
11/29/2007 18:31:48 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Bye Karen.
11/29/2007 18:31:48 PM from Nomi Harris to All Participants:
bye karen!
11/29/2007 18:31:59 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
In fact, bye everyone. We're out of time!
11/29/2007 18:32:13 PM from Alexander Diehl to All Participants:
meeting next week same time?
11/29/2007 18:32:17 PM from midori to All Participants:
who's coming to office hours today?
11/29/2007 18:32:29 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Oh! Important change!
11/29/2007 18:32:39 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
I'm back on a normal schedule now.
11/29/2007 18:32:45 PM from midori to All Participants:
And has anyone got today's transcript?
11/29/2007 18:32:45 PM from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
great!
11/29/2007 18:33:16 PM from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
is there any chance of a few lessons in how to work the new features before you go, now that you're back on normal schedule?
11/29/2007 18:33:20 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Since I'm leaving so soon, I'd like to be on constant office hours until I go. If you want to talk about something, skype chat me and I'll set up a meeting immediately.
11/29/2007 18:33:29 PM from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
great thanks :-)
11/29/2007 18:33:39 PM from melissaH to All Participants:
awesome!
11/29/2007 18:33:42 PM from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
that's same time as this right?
11/29/2007 18:33:59 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Any time.
11/29/2007 18:34:04 PM from Jen Deegan to All Participants:
fab!
11/29/2007 18:34:08 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
(9-5 mountain)
11/29/2007 18:34:24 PM from John Day-Richter to All Participants:
Anyway, having said that, I must now run and drop my little guy at school. I'll be back in about 45 mins.