OE Webex 18Mar08

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March 18, 2008	4:34:41 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Ok. I just sent out the meeting invitation, but it may be too late.
March 18, 2008	4:35:09 PM	from Nomi Harris:	When I set up the meeting, it asked me whether I want to send the announcement to all participants and I said yes, so I assumed (wrongly) that it had done so.
March 18, 2008	4:35:14 PM	from midori:	Yes, I got that, but it was the release announcement, not the meeting invite. I just always check the GO webex page if I think there's a meeting coming up ... I"m funny that way ;)
March 18, 2008	4:35:25 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Well, you guys are the "regulars".
March 18, 2008	4:35:33 PM	from Jen Deegan:	it's a good system, though sometime there isn't a webex set up
March 18, 2008	4:35:34 PM	from midori:	lucky us
March 18, 2008	4:35:45 PM	from Jen Deegan:	we knew it was meant to be just now though didn't we?
March 18, 2008	4:35:51 PM	from Jen Deegan:	anyway...
March 18, 2008	4:35:56 PM	from midori:	I have downloaded and installed beta33 ...
March 18, 2008	4:35:58 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Did you get a chance to try b33? Delete is still broken. The main thing is the new regulates relationships and icons.
March 18, 2008	4:36:05 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Good.
March 18, 2008	4:36:07 PM	from Jen Deegan:	just trying it now
March 18, 2008	4:36:23 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Do you normally launch from the command line or by double-clicking the OE icon?
March 18, 2008	4:36:32 PM	from midori:	I started it up and tried to load SO (hoping I could address your parent/child question) ...
March 18, 2008	4:36:54 PM	from midori:	... the reasoner was on, and stalled about halfway through.
March 18, 2008	4:36:54 PM	from Jen Deegan:	I use the icon
March 18, 2008	4:37:10 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Chris was complaining that OE with the reasoner on has gotten really slow.
March 18, 2008	4:37:23 PM	from midori:	I had a lot of other stuff to do so I haven't got back to it to see what happens with reasoner off.
March 18, 2008	4:37:24 PM	from Nomi Harris:	I haven't changed anything in the reasoner (that I know of) so I'm not sure why that would be. I'm going to look into that.
March 18, 2008	4:37:43 PM	from midori:	Mostly I use the Apple menu "recent items".
March 18, 2008	4:38:20 PM	from midori:	(tossed out again. grrr.)
March 18, 2008	4:38:27 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Ok. I usually launch from the command line. I just enabled it to take a filename as an argument, so you can say "oboedit so.obo" or whatever. I don't know if anyone else will use that, but it makes it more convenient for me!
March 18, 2008	4:39:04 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Did the regulates icons show up ok for you in b33?
March 18, 2008	4:39:09 PM	from midori:	I always launched the platform-independent version from the command line. Can I launch the Mac version the same way?
March 18, 2008	4:39:15 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Yes!
March 18, 2008	4:39:25 PM	from midori:	Don't know; only tried loading SO. Can check now ...
March 18, 2008	4:39:36 PM	from Nomi Harris:	You can check from the Configuration Manager.
March 18, 2008	4:39:45 PM	from midori:	oh, and cool! about command line. I like using it.
March 18, 2008	4:39:47 PM	from Nomi Harris:	You don't have to load an ontology that has regulates in it.
March 18, 2008	4:40:29 PM	from Nomi Harris:	In the Configuration Manager, go to Icons & Colors.
March 18, 2008	4:41:16 PM	from Karen:	yep, the icons show up in the config manager
March 18, 2008	4:41:44 PM	from Jen Deegan:	there's a windows specific bug that stops me seeing those but I know you're not able to fix that. 
March 18, 2008	4:41:55 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Yeah, sorry, Jen--I know that's a drag.
March 18, 2008	4:42:05 PM	from Jen Deegan:	no problem
March 18, 2008	4:42:07 PM	from midori:	hmmm, by default I have icons for positively_regulates and negatively_regulates, but not just plain regulates.
March 18, 2008	4:42:07 PM	from Nomi Harris:	We don't even have a Windows machine here to test one, but hopefully we will get one soon.
March 18, 2008	4:42:19 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Really? The plain regulates shows up for me.
March 18, 2008	4:42:36 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Has anyone else tried it?
March 18, 2008	4:42:50 PM	from Karen:	I see all 3 regulates icons in the Config manager
March 18, 2008	4:42:52 PM	from midori:	I can pick one for regulates, no problem.
March 18, 2008	4:43:01 PM	from Nomi Harris:	That's weird that Karen sees one and you don't, midori.
March 18, 2008	4:43:21 PM	from Nomi Harris:	I wish that icon-chooser widget were a bit more reliable!
March 18, 2008	4:43:34 PM	from midori:	Yes. Lately I've stoppeb being surprised by OE weirdness.
March 18, 2008	4:43:39 PM	from Nomi Harris:	*sigh*
March 18, 2008	4:44:06 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Platform-specific issues are always hard to fix. We had some of those with Apollo, too.
March 18, 2008	4:44:25 PM	from Nomi Harris:	But you're on a Mac, midori, so I'm puzzled that you're not seeing the regulates icon.
March 18, 2008	4:44:54 PM	from Nomi Harris:	I mean, sure, you can pick one, but why isn't it just there? Does it offer you regs-square.svg as one of the icon choices?
March 18, 2008	4:45:00 PM	from midori:	I wonder if the "problem" is that I picked a different icon for regulates a while ago, and it's hung on to that selection instead of the default.
March 18, 2008	4:45:03 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Oh, I bet I know
March 18, 2008	4:45:13 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Yes, I was just going to say that. I bet it's in your .oboeditbeta.
March 18, 2008	4:45:20 PM	from midori:	Yes, regs-square.svg is there, but it wasn't selected.
March 18, 2008	4:45:45 PM	from midori:	well, nice of it to respect my previous choice.
March 18, 2008	4:47:05 PM	from Jen Deegan:	I'm not sure why but my oboedit won't do anything any more
March 18, 2008	4:47:22 PM	from Jen Deegan:	I selected one of the relationship types and It won't select any of the others now
March 18, 2008	4:47:35 PM	from Nomi Harris:	In the Configuration manager, you mean?
March 18, 2008	4:47:44 PM	from Jen Deegan:	yes that's right
March 18, 2008	4:47:49 PM	from Nomi Harris:	(BTW, I didn't see anything before Jen's "I'm not sure why").
March 18, 2008	4:48:06 PM	from Jen Deegan:	my oboedit has got stuck
March 18, 2008	4:48:11 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Did you try to browse built-in icons?
March 18, 2008	4:48:18 PM	from Jen Deegan:	I can't click anything since I clicked one of the relationships
March 18, 2008	4:48:26 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Because that grabs the focus.
March 18, 2008	4:48:36 PM	from Jen Deegan:	I'll check
March 18, 2008	4:48:53 PM	from Jen Deegan:	yes that was it
March 18, 2008	4:48:54 PM	from Nomi Harris:	I know it's not displaying the built-in icons correctly for you, but maybe it still stole the focus.
March 18, 2008	4:48:58 PM	from Jen Deegan:	the window had got lost
March 18, 2008	4:49:14 PM	from Nomi Harris:	That's mildly annoying.
March 18, 2008	4:49:20 PM	from Nomi Harris:	So, did I miss anything when I got booted?
March 18, 2008	4:49:29 PM	from Jen Deegan:	not from me
March 18, 2008	4:49:42 PM	from midori:	I don't think so ..
March 18, 2008	4:49:58 PM	from Karen:	probably not, there was a long pause with no comments, and the one you mentioned was the one that broke the "silence"
March 18, 2008	4:50:10 PM	from Nomi Harris:	For the regulates icons, I can replace the defaults easily if there is a consensus on what they should be.
March 18, 2008	4:50:16 PM	from midori:	will someone get the transcript? (I've been booted, so don't have the whole thing)
March 18, 2008	4:50:27 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Jen, can you save the transcript?
March 18, 2008	4:50:29 PM	from Karen:	I'll save now too
March 18, 2008	4:50:46 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Is everyone happy with the new component names (Graph Viewer, etc)?
March 18, 2008	4:50:46 PM	from midori:	thanks
March 18, 2008	4:51:29 PM	from Jen Deegan:	I'll save
March 18, 2008	4:51:37 PM	from Jen Deegan:	yes the names are good
March 18, 2008	4:51:48 PM	from melissaH:	yes, much better!
March 18, 2008	4:52:07 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Great. I hope I changed it everywhere in the documentation, but please let me know if you see any of the old names mentioned.
March 18, 2008	4:52:46 PM	from Nomi Harris:	midori, I just tried to launch the installed OE from the command line.
March 18, 2008	4:53:24 PM	from Nomi Harris:	You can do it with "open OBO-Edit.app"
March 18, 2008	4:53:31 PM	from Nomi Harris:	but it doesn't seem to accept command-line arguments that way.
March 18, 2008	4:54:09 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Normally I launch from the command-line from a version that I compiled from source rather than installed with the installer
March 18, 2008	4:54:25 PM	from Nomi Harris:	and in that mode, the launch script is called "oboedit", which is basically a wrapper for the OBO-Edit application.
March 18, 2008	4:54:44 PM	from Nomi Harris:	In the installed verison, we don't include the "oboedit" script because you don't need it and it might confuse people to have both oboedit and OBO-Edit there.
March 18, 2008	4:56:00 PM	from David OS:	oboedit is the program name for oboedit1. I need to have both 1 and 2 on the same system, so program names should be different.
March 18, 2008	4:57:01 PM	from David OS:	Having OBO-Edit as the program name for oboedit2 gets around this, but sounds like the script would mess that up.
March 18, 2008	4:57:13 PM	from Nomi Harris:	However, you can stick the oboedit script in the OBO-Edit installed directory and run it that way.
March 18, 2008	4:57:38 PM	from Nomi Harris:	I can give it to you, or perhaps I could "hide" it somewhere in the installed directory?
March 18, 2008	4:57:53 PM	from midori:	that would be useful ...
March 18, 2008	4:58:06 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Not sure exactly what you mean, David. The script doesn't mess up anything; I was just worried that it would confuse users.
March 18, 2008	4:58:17 PM	from Karen:	putting it somewhere in the installed directory seems best. People who don't want to run command line will never notice, but it will be there for those who do.
March 18, 2008	4:58:32 PM	from Jen Deegan:	I think the users who would be confused by that will be using the icon, so it should be fine. 
March 18, 2008	4:58:56 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Hey, maybe instead of calling the command-line launch script "oboedit"
March 18, 2008	4:59:12 PM	from Nomi Harris:	I could name it "command-line-launcher"
March 18, 2008	4:59:20 PM	from Karen:	works for me
March 18, 2008	4:59:20 PM	from Jen Deegan:	that would be good
March 18, 2008	4:59:30 PM	from Nomi Harris:	or something more cryptic so that regular users don't think it's the "real" OE
March 18, 2008	4:59:31 PM	from Jen Deegan:	is it the same one for windows and unix-based systems?
March 18, 2008	4:59:32 PM	from midori:	Whatever. I"m going to create an alias anyway!
March 18, 2008	4:59:39 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Not sure about Windows.
March 18, 2008	4:59:43 PM	from Nomi Harris:	It's kind of a Unixy thing.
March 18, 2008	5:00:30 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Harold just sent this warning:
March 18, 2008	5:00:45 PM	from David OS:	Just better if the command line lanuch script doesn't have the same name as the program name from oboedit1. Having them both the same means that the shell will find the first one in $PATH and always go with that - unless you set up an alias first.
March 18, 2008	5:00:54 PM	from Nomi Harris:	(rats, why won't it let me paste in this box?)
March 18, 2008	5:01:02 PM	from Nomi Harris:	David, right, good point.
March 18, 2008	5:01:08 PM	from David OS:	Not a big deal though.
March 18, 2008	5:01:43 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Harold wrote: I noticed during installation,mac version: Normally, it already fills in my oboedit-beta\oboedit path for the installation (last installation path used)
March 18, 2008	5:01:59 PM	from Karen:	maybe best to use beta to designate the one that's in beta, so that we won't have to change once we've got a release version of OE2, and are working on more OE2 betas
March 18, 2008	5:02:03 PM	from Nomi Harris:	BUT, this time, it used my \oboedit (1.101) as the default. Had I not noticed it, I would have hosed my 1.1 release. Watch that install path!"
March 18, 2008	5:02:29 PM	from Nomi Harris:	There have also been issues with the new Phenote installer, which was set up by the same installer builder (install4j) as OE
March 18, 2008	5:02:37 PM	from midori:	I noticed the equivalent on the Mac -- it didn't remember my previous beta installation directory this time, but reverted to a default.
March 18, 2008	5:02:59 PM	from Karen:	yea, I saw too that , in contrast to last time, where it prompted me with the path of my previous beta
March 18, 2008	5:02:59 PM	from Nomi Harris:	The issue is that it was remembering the last place you installed something with an install4j installer
March 18, 2008	5:03:15 PM	from Nomi Harris:	and offering that as the place to install the new thing--whether it be Phenote or OE1 or OE2.
March 18, 2008	5:03:29 PM	from Nomi Harris:	At least one user accidentally clobbered her OE by installing Phenote on top of it.
March 18, 2008	5:03:35 PM	from Karen:	hmm, the last thing I installed was beta32. I haven't reinstalled 1.101 for months
March 18, 2008	5:03:45 PM	from melissaH:	same prob on windows
March 18, 2008	5:03:53 PM	from Nomi Harris:	So for this release, I turned off that history so it wouldn't try to install Phenote on top of OE or v/v.
March 18, 2008	5:04:08 PM	from melissaH:	I did install phenote since the last b32
March 18, 2008	5:04:17 PM	from Nomi Harris:	But it looks like that had the unintended bad effect of making it suggest "/oboedit" as the default place,
March 18, 2008	5:04:17 PM	from midori:	was that in the release notes?
March 18, 2008	5:04:26 PM	from Nomi Harris:	which people have used for their OE1.
March 18, 2008	5:04:39 PM	from Nomi Harris:	midori, no, it probably should have been.
March 18, 2008	5:04:52 PM	from Nomi Harris:	I did it at the last minute when putting up b33 yesterday.
March 18, 2008	5:05:17 PM	from Nomi Harris:	The installer *suggests* a place for you to install the application, and you can always edit that, but I think most people just reflexively hit "Next".
March 18, 2008	5:05:40 PM	from midori:	I wonder why install4j would clobber OE with Phenote or vice versa anyway ...??
March 18, 2008	5:05:43 PM	from Nomi Harris:	I'm not sure what the best solution is, since right now neither behavior (remember your last install directory or start from scratch) seems to work well.
March 18, 2008	5:05:54 PM	from Nomi Harris:	midori, the problem is that it seems to share the history with the other installers
March 18, 2008	5:06:11 PM	from Nomi Harris:	so if you last installed Phenote, and now you're trying to install OE, it will suggest /Applications/Phenote
March 18, 2008	5:06:18 PM	from Nomi Harris:	or wherever you installed Phenote.
March 18, 2008	5:06:31 PM	from midori:	I see ...
March 18, 2008	5:06:48 PM	from Nomi Harris:	It seems like a weird way for the installer builder to behave, since you'd think there'd be other people who wanted to make installers for multiple applications.
March 18, 2008	5:06:59 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Maybe it's a bug, or maybe they just didn't think about this possibility.
March 18, 2008	5:07:04 PM	from Karen:	seems like optimal behavior would be to have separate histories for each app
March 18, 2008	5:07:12 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Karen, I agree, but it doesn't seem to do it that way.
March 18, 2008	5:07:25 PM	from midori:	I'm surprised it's not that clever. But there we are.
March 18, 2008	5:07:28 PM	from Nomi Harris:	It's kind of like if you're trying to run different versions of OE, it uses your .oboeditbeta and things can get mixed up.
March 18, 2008	5:07:49 PM	from Nomi Harris:	I'm surprised, too, but maybe they just never thought about it. I will continue looking into a workaround
March 18, 2008	5:08:12 PM	from Nomi Harris:	since it sounds like the current behavior (which I was hoping would be a good solution) is no good for people who had OE1 installed.
March 18, 2008	5:08:58 PM	from Nomi Harris:	I am also still trying to figure out how to fix the delete bugs.
March 18, 2008	5:09:16 PM	from Nomi Harris:	It's puzzling, because it looks like some of the desired behavior (e.g. don't let user delete a term that has children) was not implemented in OE2,
March 18, 2008	5:10:06 PM	from David OS:	Pretty fundamental behaviour...
March 18, 2008	5:10:08 PM	from Nomi Harris:	and there are other things in the code that seem wrong (e.g. a method that ends "if (isLegal) return;" which is weird because it would have returned there anyway, regardless, so what was John really trying to do there?")
March 18, 2008	5:10:17 PM	from midori:	I don't know whether John did that on purpose. What I called the desired behavior is what OE1 does, and I don't recall hearing plans to change it.
March 18, 2008	5:10:35 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Sometimes bad behavior is just clearly a bug, and I can find the bug and fix it.
March 18, 2008	5:11:01 PM	from Nomi Harris:	This is a little more complicated because it doesn't appear to me that John shared the same view of the desired behavior as midori (and presumably her colleagues)
March 18, 2008	5:11:44 PM	from midori:	... Even though John's the one who implemented the said behavior in the first place, in OE1!
March 18, 2008	5:11:53 PM	from Nomi Harris:	And it doesn't help matters that I am far from being an expert OE user, and in fact am pretty much a novice about ontologies in general, so I'm a bit hazy on what the behavior should be.
March 18, 2008	5:12:05 PM	from David OS:	paranoid
March 18, 2008	5:12:21 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Paranoid? Meaning, when in doubt, refuse to delete (and/or warn)?
March 18, 2008	5:12:27 PM	from David OS:	yep
March 18, 2008	5:12:27 PM	from Nomi Harris:	The warning part is not working right either.
March 18, 2008	5:12:30 PM	from midori:	I'm also not sure when the OE2 behavior I noticed started happening.
March 18, 2008	5:12:34 PM	from Nomi Harris:	It sometimes silently deletes w/o warning.
March 18, 2008	5:13:02 PM	from Nomi Harris:	midori, if you could give me a simple, clean example of how delete should behave and how it's behaving wrong, that would help
March 18, 2008	5:13:06 PM	from Nomi Harris:	but don't spend tons of time on it.
March 18, 2008	5:13:19 PM	from midori:	OE1 had me so conditioned to remove children before attempting to make something obsolete that I don't think I tried in OE2 until the other day (and that was by accident).
March 18, 2008	5:13:27 PM	from midori:	OK ...
March 18, 2008	5:13:38 PM	from Nomi Harris:	It could be that this was never tested in OE2 so no one noticed it was wrong.
March 18, 2008	5:13:59 PM	from Nomi Harris:	It also looks like at some point John did some refactoring of how terms & links are collected and evaluated for deletion
March 18, 2008	5:14:16 PM	from Nomi Harris:	and I suspect that the various delete behaviors were never completely debugged after that refactoring.
March 18, 2008	5:14:24 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Possibly because they weren't all tested.
March 18, 2008	5:14:36 PM	from Nomi Harris:	I certainly don't test every single editing scenario when I make a change.
March 18, 2008	5:14:37 PM	from Jen Deegan:	he did a big code reorganisation just before he left
March 18, 2008	5:15:03 PM	from David OS:	Maybe something to do with whether links implied by the reasoner count as cause for warning?
March 18, 2008	5:16:28 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Argh! Booted again.
March 18, 2008	5:16:43 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Did I miss anything?
March 18, 2008	5:16:51 PM	from Karen:	no
March 18, 2008	5:17:00 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Anyway, I was going to say, for behaviors that broke during that refactoring,
March 18, 2008	5:17:12 PM	from Nomi Harris:	I can't just revert to the old code, because so many things changed at the same time that it's no longer compatible.
March 18, 2008	5:17:26 PM	from Nomi Harris:	We should probably wrap up. Any other issues to discuss today?
March 18, 2008	5:17:37 PM	from Jen Deegan:	could I ask a quick icon question?
March 18, 2008	5:17:40 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Sure
March 18, 2008	5:18:06 PM	from midori:	At the moment, delete seems OK in beta33 ... but I've only tested a few, so it feel premature to sign off. I'll keep testing ...
March 18, 2008	5:18:12 PM	from Jen Deegan:	the positively and negatively regulates icons aren't set up for me and I can't select them as the selector isn't working
March 18, 2008	5:18:33 PM	from Jen Deegan:	shall I just save the files out to desktop and then browser for them until the selector is working?
March 18, 2008	5:18:59 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Not sure what you mean.
March 18, 2008	5:19:05 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Did you want to change the default icon assignment?
March 18, 2008	5:19:12 PM	from Jen Deegan:	I could show you?
March 18, 2008	5:19:16 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Even if the icon chooser isn't working for you, it should have the default icons there.
March 18, 2008	5:19:16 PM	from Jen Deegan:	just quickly?
March 18, 2008	5:19:22 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Sure. Should we let the other people go?
March 18, 2008	5:19:23 PM	from Jen Deegan:	they seem not to be
March 18, 2008	5:19:30 PM	from Jen Deegan:	ok
March 18, 2008	5:19:33 PM	from Jen Deegan:	I can save the chat
March 18, 2008	5:19:47 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Thanks. Why don't you save it now in case you get booted (though you usually don't seem to)
March 18, 2008	5:19:51 PM	from Jen Deegan:	ok
March 18, 2008	5:19:54 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Bye, everyone else?
March 18, 2008	5:20:01 PM	from pankaj jaiswal:	bye
March 18, 2008	5:20:07 PM	from David OS:	One quick thing to report
March 18, 2008	5:20:10 PM	from Jen Deegan:	saved
March 18, 2008	5:20:11 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Thanks for coming--sorry about the late notice.
March 18, 2008	5:20:11 PM	from midori:	did anyone get last week's transcript? (Don't remember seeing it on the list; apologies if I just overlooked it)
March 18, 2008	5:20:20 PM	from David OS:	ahhh - maybe too late...
March 18, 2008	5:20:23 PM	from Nomi Harris:	I have it but didn't send it out, midori.
March 18, 2008	5:20:25 PM	from Nomi Harris:	David, go ahead.
March 18, 2008	5:20:43 PM	from David OS:	OK - I've been testing the dangling refs behavior
March 18, 2008	5:20:48 PM	from Nomi Harris:	(uh oh)
March 18, 2008	5:21:01 PM	from David OS:	Progress - I can now load the file, but still have some wierd behavior. Writing up bug report now.
March 18, 2008	5:21:14 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Ok. That's pretty untested territory, so I'm not surprised.
March 18, 2008	5:21:39 PM	from David OS:	Will attach or link to a couple of files with lots of dangling XPs for testing.
March 18, 2008	5:21:57 PM	from Nomi Harris:	I'll see what I can do, but I have a lot of pressing issues (e.g. reasoner slowdown) to look into this week and a busy week with other projects I need to complete.
March 18, 2008	5:22:17 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Thanks for including the test files.
March 18, 2008	5:22:51 PM	from David OS:	OK. At least I can now load these things to test. Nice to see all this incremental progess.
March 18, 2008	5:22:52 PM	from midori:	I'll see what's up with reasoner, hotkeys, etc. The hotkeys in particular are driving me nuts, because they work a lot, but not quite all, of the time.
March 18, 2008	5:23:04 PM	from Nomi Harris:	That does sound very frustrating.
March 18, 2008	5:23:14 PM	from Nomi Harris:	It's also going to be pretty much impossible to fix w/o a repeatable, I'm sorry to say.
March 18, 2008	5:23:26 PM	from melissaH:	just submitted a new bug- can't change new terms names. thats a new one for me.
March 18, 2008	5:23:38 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Whoa, that's strange. Is that consistent?
March 18, 2008	5:23:44 PM	from David OS:	hotkeys? Never use these, perhaps I should investigate.
March 18, 2008	5:23:52 PM	from Nomi Harris:	I never use hotkeys unless I'm trying to debug them.
March 18, 2008	5:24:01 PM	from Nomi Harris:	midori is queen of the hotkeys.
March 18, 2008	5:24:25 PM	from midori:	I love me my hotkeys.
March 18, 2008	5:24:35 PM	from Jen Deegan:	for the regulates icons, is everybody happy with the three colours? I would have been keen to have all of them one colour, and the time for comment is nearly over. 
March 18, 2008	5:24:49 PM	from David OS:	don't even know what they do...
March 18, 2008	5:24:56 PM	from Jen Deegan:	(I managed to get them to work.)
March 18, 2008	5:25:06 PM	from midori:	I see the argument for one color, but I'm stying out of the icon debate.
March 18, 2008	5:25:14 PM	from midori:	(er, staying ...)
March 18, 2008	5:25:16 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Oh, glad you managed to get them to work, Jen.
March 18, 2008	5:25:21 PM	from Nomi Harris:	I am definitely staying out of the icon debate as well.
March 18, 2008	5:25:38 PM	from Nomi Harris:	(Though I agree that multiple colors for similar relations is overkill and one color is better.)
March 18, 2008	5:25:50 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Does anyone have an opinion about the link color for the regulates relationships?
March 18, 2008	5:25:57 PM	from Nomi Harris:	I made it maroon for lack of a better idea.
March 18, 2008	5:26:14 PM	from midori:	Fine ... no strong preference ...
March 18, 2008	5:26:33 PM	from Jen Deegan:	just trying to find one...
March 18, 2008	5:28:12 PM	from Nomi Harris:	You can email me later if you find one you like.
March 18, 2008	5:28:15 PM	from Jen Deegan:	ok
March 18, 2008	5:28:21 PM	from Jen Deegan:	it's a bit of a hunt
March 18, 2008	5:28:28 PM	from Nomi Harris:	I know, we've already used up most of the colors.
March 18, 2008	5:28:35 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Are we done?
March 18, 2008	5:28:41 PM	from Jen Deegan:	I think so
March 18, 2008	5:28:46 PM	from Nomi Harris:	Great. Bye, everyone!
March 18, 2008	5:28:52 PM	from Jen Deegan:	okay, I'll save the chat.
March 18, 2008	5:28:53 PM	from Jen Deegan:	bye
March 18, 2008	5:28:59 PM	from Nomi Harris:	(Jen, don't forget to send me the transcript!)
March 18, 2008	5:29:01 PM	from Amina:	bye